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Grand Council Procedings (fwd)

In case anyone is interested, I pulled this off the rialto.

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From: dani@telerama.lm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Grand Council Monthly Summary 3/95 Pt.1 of 2
Date: 3 Apr 1995 16:43:46 -0500
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	Digest of the Grand Council Chronicles for 
	      March, 1995:  Issues #5-9


This digest is a monthly condensation of the Grand Council
Chronicle.  It is produced for those who wish to follow the
Council's discussions, but find it impractical to obtain or read
the full text.  (See appendix for postal or email subscription
information.)  This is not an official report of the Grand Council. 
The contents represent my own judgment of what twenty [printed]
pages worth of discussion to collect each month.  

In the course of effecting a 75% reduction in volume, I have had to
make a number of judgment calls about what discussion to omit.  For
now, I am systematically omitting almost all discussion of the
mission and the internal workings of the Grand Council.  (I will
also be leaving fewer traces of my deletions than I did in the
first issue:  It seems better to just omit a message than to
include only a header and an "administrative discussion deleted".) 
On other topics I've presented only a sampling of the discussion. 
This is particularly true for the discussion on whether SCA groups
should be allowed to overlap, geographically.  (It's an interesting
discussion, but a lot of text had to be cut to reach the target
page-count -- and my personal judgment is that the Grand Council is
unlikely to decide, in the end, to deal with this question.)  And
I've trimmed articles extensively.  (The revised articles have not
been run past their original writers.)  Readers who feel that this
editing is introducing an unacceptable bias are urged to let me know. 

Distribution:  This digest may be obtained by mail (with a SASE) or
over the net.  See details at the end.  I had not intended to post
the full digest to the Rialto after the first month, but the
readership of the full Grand Council Chronicle turns out to be
barely over 150, so I'm posting this issue, to place the discussions of
the Grand Council before a wider audience.  If you feel that this digest
is out of place on the Rialto, please let me know.

Yours in service,

Dani of the Seven Wells

                  Grand Council Chronicle

                  Issue #5 -- March 1, 1995

      This is the Grand Council Chronicle, the proceedings of the
      Grand Council of the Known World, a body chartered to examine
      the structure of the Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc.,
      and make recommendations of changes. The contents represent
      the opinions of the contributing authors, and do not
      necessarily represent the official policies of the SCA, Inc.


~From: Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@mathstat.yorku.ca> [Approved
by Justin.] 

...A central purpose of any corporation is to limit individual
liability.  Thus, the obvious purposes of the corporation qua
corporation are to:  shelter group finances, provide tax immunity,
shelter organizers of society events, guarantee service providers
against loss due to tort.  This pretty much comes down to
maintaining corporate existence, maintaining non-profit status and
maintaining the insurance policy (which in my estimation may be
inadequate as it probably does not cover the actions of all
officials at our events.  e.g., autocrats, marshals, etc.)  In
order to secure tax-exempt status, the society as a whole most
engage in demonstrably educational activities.  (Here, I think that
the corporation is probably going overboard.)  The corporation can
also provide services of various sorts to the society. 
Historically, these have mostly been in the form of publications. 
(This is something which I think that  the society as a whole can
do a lot better.  I am going to apply to be the next CA editor to
succeed the current interim appointee.)  These  publications also
help to reify the educational mission of the corporation itself. 
There are a number of inter-kingdom offices which are currently
viewed as corporate offices.  (The are not necessarily corporate
offices.) Of these, the Society Marshal and the Laurel Sovereign of
Arms are probably  most directly tied to our medieval recreation. 
Both, the heralds and the Marshalate engage in significant inter-
kingdom activity.  Both should  probably exist even if the
corporation were to be abolished.  (Essentially, I think that the
notion of inter-kingdom officers should be seperated from the
notion of the corporation.  Publications also have great potential,
but could be seperated out in a number of ways and could be vastly


~From: rgathercoal@foxmail.gfc.edu (Roy Gathercoal)

It seems to me that the characterizations of the Society as a Federation
by Cariadoc and Tibor are insufficient in at least two points.

1.  Branches should exist to serve the members of the Society.  It
is not the case that I am a member of the Society because I am a
member of the branch.  Thus if I happen to live in an area which is
not being served by a branch, I am not a second-class citizen.  If
my branch folds (or chooses not to continue in the society) it does
not mean that I sacrifice any of my rights as a member of the
Society.  If I do not happen to enjoy attending my local branch
meetings, I am free to attend the meetings of any other branch, and
have a right to expect that I will be treated fairly and
courteously.  If we move to a federation model, however, my
membership must come through a branch.  If I have no local branch
(or do not choose to participate in the local branch) then I am
compelled to either find another branch that will take me as a
member (assuming that I live in a fairly populous area and that
there are multiple branches from which to choose) or must give up
my membership.

It may be that we could find some way of structuring things so that
branches are more independent (though I shudder at the potential
for abuse if no checks are placed on the authority of local branch
officers).  but I would caution that each move toward branch
autonomy is necessarily a move toward diminishing the rights of
members who are not served by local branches.

2.  All other things are not equal--the nature of the Society is
substantially different from that of most hobby-clubs.  We are a


~From: ddfr@midway.uchicago.edu

...My impression is that almost every serious hobby feels this way
about itself--and most assume they are unique in doing so. I think
the phrase in SF fandom is "not a hobby but a way of life." I once
corresponded with a Tuchuk whose description of how his group was
different from and better then the SCA reminded me very much of SCA
members' explanation of how we are different from and better than
the mundane world.

...Perhaps you could expand on...what is particularly complex about
our hobby? Both our overall population and our largest events are
substantially smaller than the mineral collectors whose hobby I was
describing. They, like us, put on events that involve coordination
of multiple groups. They give prizes, hold classes, ...  .
Obviously every hobby is different, but are you really saying
anything more than that our hobby seems complex because you are in
it and thus see all the complications? At a distance, most things
look simple.

...The most obvious difficulty I see with [Gareth's] specific
proposal is that it might replace Board overload with Society
officer overload. At present the Board is in charge of both running
the Corporation and supervising/planning the corporation, and as a
result does neither very well. His proposal removes the former
responsibility from the Board and dumps it on the officers--who I
gather are already fairly busy.

...Another issue worth discussing, if we are considering the sort
of decentralization I describe, is what kinds of control the
Corporation or the Kingdom should retain over the local groups.
Financial controls are unnecessary, since each local group is
spending its own money. On the other hand, a group covered by
kingdom or corporate insurance can hurt all of us if it does
dangerous things--fighting with lances from horseback, for example.
And a group using our name can hurt our reputation... 


~From: rgathercoal@foxmail.gfc.edu (Roy Gathercoal)

[...] I personally believe we would be better off with a more
clearly defined mission.  But I am not sure the resulting pain
would be worth the effort.  The primary problem I see with Justin's
proposed mission statement is that it has little to do with
organizational mission:  ". . . to serve as a resource for
historical groups re-creating aspects of the culture of the Middle
Ages and Renaissance." is so broad as to include everything even
remotely flavored by the middle ages (and by adding "renaissance"
tacks on an even greater time frame).  A pizza-and-beer party with
fast food "crowns" would count, as would any academic conference
(the university is heavily steeped in Middle Ages traditions, and
most disciplines can trace some significant elements to the middle
ages and renaissance).  

Many of the greatest hits the board has taken has been because of
its attempts to include radically diverse groups--policies that
make no sense for one group (such as requirement for garb) are
critical to another.  At one planning retreat, the board members
themselves could not come to agreement on what the society was
about.  (Camelot, the way the middle ages should have been?  or the
cold middle ages that is exposed when layers of sentimentality get
stripped away? or a social society, with a middle ages theme?  or
a cool sporting organization with more trappings and drama than
even the Olympics--or American Gladiators?)  

So is the answer to decentralize, to allow each group to do what is
right in its own eyes?  Only if we wish to see the end of our
society.  The day one Crown declares "from this day forward in this
kingdom, referees will score all fighting tournaments" or "garb at
events in this kingdom shall not be required of any attendee" our
society will no longer be one.  

For all my critiques of the board and corporate officers, I would
commend them for keeping such a diverse group of people together
for so long.  This diversity is a great part of our strength.  To
illustrate, one need only point to one of the many "splinter"
groups that organized around a tight mission statement, and failed
to grow or to keep the interest of any but a small handfull of people.

We should want more from the SCA than this.  It is probably possible, and
perhaps necessary, but I am not sure how we could do both.


~From:  donna@Kwantlen.BC.CA (Donna Hrynkiw) at CCGTWINT [Approved
by Caroline]

[...] Dani of the Seven Wells: Grand Council: A Pile of Proposals 

A. Restructuring the Registry
2. Outsourcing
> We'd also need to know what levels of extraordinary service (eg,
> sending out a new label run in an emergency) are available and what
> they'd cost.
Keep "regular" extraordinary services in mind too: eg. branch
advancement  polls and the like.
3. Decentralizing Publications [...]
> Con:  Subscribing to multiple newsletters would become more
> cumbersome, as would changing kingdoms.
As Jane Member, I'd like to say that this isn't a big deal. I
already  subscribe to (in addition to the publications that come
with my  membership) a regional newsletter, a baronial newsletter,
three SCA-wide  special interest newsletters, and three not-my-
branch branch newsletters.  Maintaining multiple subscriptions is
not a concern to me.
I don't understand the comment about the difficulty of changing
kingdoms.  I move from Kingdom A to Kingdom B. I continue to get
Newsletter A until  it lapses or I maintain it to keep in touch
with life in Kingdom A. When I get to Kingdom B, I get a
subscription to Newsletter B to find out what's  going on locally.
> Many members might choose to let their newsletter subscriptions
> lapse, and become less informed.
Their choice, their problem. You just can't force people to be informed.

> More subscribers than the Corporation can afford might choose to
> let their memberships lapse.
BINGO! Many, and I mean MANY -- me included, are members because
that is  the only way to get the newsletters. We do not see any
other benefits >from being a member. Separate the newsletters from
the membership and many  will drop their membership if you don't
explain fully and attractively  what it does for them.  I think it
is far more likely that the memberships  will be allowed to lapse
than the newsletter subscriptions. (FYI: I live in north An Tir --
Canada, to be more specific.)      
Bundle the TI with membership. I get the same sort of deal with two
other  societies I belong to: a membership gets me the the blanket
organization's  newsletter, and I subscribe separately to the local
newsletter. [...]

~From: watkins julia k <julifolo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> [Authorized by

...I don't [think] the average Society member has a real
understanding about the SCA bureaucracy. At the same time that we
are  discussing what we feel is important, and why, I hope we can
be discussing  with the administration what they feel is important,
and why. From a  political realities point of view we are going to
need the cooperation of the current bureaucracy for any changes to

   There has been ample evidence (the mandamus petition; numerous 
signatures on other petitions; discussion on the Rialto; etc.) that
a significant fraction of Society members feel the administration
isn't communicating well or getting appropriate input from the
membership. I think the administration could do a better job of
explaining to people in general what they're doing and why it's


Greetings unto the members of the Grand Council from Serwyl ap Morgan.


I have a sinking feeling that we are already getting out of
control.  Why are we starting on policy discussions when we have
neither a full complement of members nor any agreement on how to
reach decisions?  It seems to me that without action on either of
these issues we cannot and should not start with the real work of
the council.  Our first priority has to be getting our own house in

                  Grand Council Chronicle

                  Issue #6 -- March 8, 1995


Greetings to the members of the Grand Council from the vast reaches
of the Middle Kingdom where the clime seems to change by the Hour.

John of Sternfeld being not the eldest son followed King Richard on
Crusade hoping to find if not fame at least a little fortune. 
There are many accounts of Richard's adventures chasing Saladin in
the Holy Lands, we won't recount them here.  Wandering toward home
at war's end and not finding himself much better for the
experience, John found a young Barony in need of a steward. Many
years later Barony and John have learned many things about each
other, and are doing well.  Patience and listening well being prime
virtues of a good seneschal has caused John to be summoned to the
Crown's privy council to record Their discussions and decisions.

When time allows John drags the armor out and attempts to enlighten
those new to the art of heavy combat, sometimes daubles in
decorative leatherwork and various other artistic and scientific projects.

John has been a subject of the Middle Kingdom for 18 1/2 hears,
participating at varying levels of activity as time and funds
allowed.  Currently he has served as seneschal to the Barony of
Sternfeld for seven years (hence the name) and as the recording
secretary for the Curia Regis of the Midrealm for over four years. 
A & S interests have varied from judging to the construction of a
portable replica norman keep (12' sq x 24' tall).

John M. Elmore is a mechanical engineer by way of Purdue
University.  Is currently employed at the largest automotive
electronics company supplying airbag sensors to the largest car
manufacturing collective.


The Middle Kingdom is the largest of the Laurel Kingdoms in both
population and area.  Where the very structure of the Society may
change in the recommendation of this Council, the Crown and Curia
of the Middle wished the people to have some means of their
opinions reaching the Council's discussion.

I have seven "sub-delegates" by whom I hope to get imput on the
issues discussed on this forum, each of the sub-delegates live and
play in different population regions of the MK; Indiana, Kentucky,
Ohio, Illinois, Michigan, Ealdomere and Northsield.  Depending on
how this Council acutally works I may look for only their words or
the additional thoughts of those they have discussed the issues

John M Elmore;  5801 Woodside Dr.;  Indianapolis, IN  46208;  USA


~From: LSmith5696@aol.com
Greetings G.C. from Kyle of Kincora.

Kyle is a 10th century Irish pirate, a Knight for 6 years, in the
SCA for almost 13. I have held some local offices and done some
autocrating (mostly cooking) and equesterian activities.

Rollie Smith is an instructor (automotive) for AC-Delco, an avid
motorsports fan and regional president of the Sports Car Club of


Greetings unto the Council from Justin du Coeur!

[...Gareth...] points out that if "membership" comes through the
local group, people who don't have a local group can't be
"members". I have to ask: so what? What is the meaning of
"membership" here? I mean, that's true in the *real* sense already
-- *participation* in the Society *is* dependent on whether there
is a local group for you to play with, and that seems to be the
important definition of "membership".

If you're concerned about people without a local group not being
able to receive, eg, TI, I'm sure we would be able to construct
things to accomodate such cases -- that's pretty easy, really. But
the real definition of membership in the Society is participation,
and that is, and will always be, dependent on having people around
to play with...

...I think the heart of my disagreement is here, though:
>However, the answer can not be to break the connected whole 
>into loosely connected parts--the structural biases will still be
>there, but will be multiplied a thousandfold as the leadership in each
>local group finds itself unencumbered by common values.  Many would
>probably not sacrifice the values important to us, but many would.  This
>would not be a service to the many members being served by these groups.

Which is *precisely* why it wouldn't happen.

Look, the standard argument for why we have to be centrally
organized is that, if we aren't, nasty people will go changing the
game willy-nilly, no one will be able to play together, and we'll
all be unhappy.

Why in God's name would anyone do that?

I mean this seriously -- how and why do you see this happening? If
a group goes and changes itself so that it is no longer compatible
with the rest of the Society on a fundamental level, the very first
thing that happens is that no one else can play with them; they are
immediately isolated. Can you really see anyone doing that? On the
contrary, even if some King *did* declare that, for instance, the
Kingdom of Foobar would no longer permit combat with rattan swords,
it's a near certainty that the next King would change things back
within five seconds of ascending the throne.

Look, there *are* clubs that exist on an international level
without a central organization dictating to them. I'm involved in
several; my standard example is Freemasonry. This group has a
*zillion* sovereign jurisdictions, something like a hundred of
them. Yes, they vary somewhat from region to region. But, on the
whole, the club is considerably *more* homogeneous than the SCA.
And the reason is that, without that central organization dictating
the game, everyone is *very* conscious of the fact that the only
thing holding everybody together is the desire to *stay* together.
That's a very powerful force, far more so than our rules and
regulations. (Indeed, I'd say that the SCA's central body tends to
act as a force for making the organization *less* homogeneous,
simply because of the contrarian nature of many SCAdians -- if the
Board tells them they *have* to do something, they'll do the
opposite just out of spite.)

Indeed, I will make this assertion: the central organization has
had *no* success in dictating the game to the Kingdoms. None. When
people have felt like something was an important common point,
they're stayed together; when they haven't, they've drifted. When
people have felt like drifting, and the Corporation tried to stop
them, it's generally been ignored. It hasn't killed us -- the
Society is flexible enough to tolerate a good deal of local
variation, within the broad parameters of the game.

I simply can't buy the argument that, without someone in the center
telling us how we *must* play the game, we'd all drift apart. Yes,
variations would crop up -- they do so today, and have done so
since the beginning, despite the often frantic attempts of the
Board to stop them. But where it's important, on the fundamental
levels of the Game, we will stay together simply because everyone
*wants* to stay together; because we value the community. If we
didn't, no Board would stand the slightest chance of holding us
together. And since we do, no one, not the most tyrranical and
foolish of Monarchs, is going to manage to drive us too far apart.


                  Grand Council Chronicle

                  Issue #7 -- March 15, 1995

~From: sir.galen.k@dobharchu.org (Galen Bevel)

 By way of introduction let me say that Sir Galen Kirchenbauer is
a 12-13th Century Teutonic Knight who has spent many years
travelling.  I have been in the SCA for 11years, held several local
offices, done some autocratting and served a term as the kingdom
seneschal of Ansteorra.  Galen Bevel is a Field Service Engineer
for Beckman Instruments living in Houston Texas. He has also spent
years travelling, performing what seems like arcane rites on
mystical objects such as DNA synthesizers and protein sequencers.


Sir Galen Eadwin Kirchenbauer;  c/o Galen W. Bevel; 9922 Kirkwren;
Houston, Tx  77089;


~Sender: arthur dent <arthur@cnj.digex.net>

[Three persona stories of Arthur the Dented regretfully omitted]
Greetings from Scott Keyes 

Raised in NJ, emigrated to LA where he hooked up with the SCA in
highschool Majored in Medieval Studies at the University of
California at Davis, but but eventually got my degree in history
cuz I couldn't manage Latin...  I've been a Chief Financial
Officer, a member of the Board of Directors, in several cases
General Manager of non-profit associations and corporations After
a few years of the sort of hassles and headaches we are now looking
to eliminate, I moved east to pursue the trade I learned at my
fathers elbow and focused on Foxpro Development. I'm now The I.S.
Director of a mildly wacky group of folks at a pharmaceuticals GPO.

As to me and the SCA:  

When I was a LOT younger and more naive, I came for the glory. I
rejoiced to serve. To give and receive loyalty. I even started with
some degree of reverence for "the crown" which lasted about until
I learned to trust my own eyes at a crown tourney (video tapes
helped too)

When I was a little older than that I still came because the people
of the Known World are my people. There's a lot that doesn't need
explaining within the society because it's shared... even when
jaded the gallantry, the romantic leanings, and of course the fact
there's not many other places you can casually talk about Njals
Saga and "the Cattle Raid"  outside of a university lit department,
and they aren't as much fun by a WIDE margin.  

In the end, I come to the Known world for ALL it has to offer.  I'd
love to play in persona more, but like other dancing, or fighting
or other enjoyments its not easy to do alone. I've done a
considerable amount of research, woven my own chainmail, done my
own leather doublet and delved deeply into the emerging soul of the
western world *BUT* I also enjoy a lot of our most UN authentic
moments and never forget that it is only a *GAME*, that I have no
desire to "go back", but have things I would like to "bring
forward"... which is why I would sorely miss our own ANACHRONISMS
if they were to go away More especially I'd miss out on the people
I sometimes hear about excluding because they aren't interested in
working THAT hard on authenticity.  

I've noticed that when I volunteer to clean up and stay at it till
3am , or work from 6pm to midnight Friday to set up an event and
come back at 8am Saturday to finish, or spend a few hours working
troll, , that few people think to ask for a  "blue card". I am an
active and contributing member to the Society. I look forward to
the day when I can in good conscience be a member of the SCA inc.
as well. It'll be cheaper and a LOT more convenient.  I'll post GC
business specific stuff soon 

THOSE I'll keep short... 

With pleasure at joining the Council 
And a Wary (and experienced) eye to our mighty and crucial task 

Scott Keyes


~From: vnend@Princeton.EDU (D. W. James) [Approved by Justin; this is from
Kwellend, who maintains the mailing list.]

Someone in the latest digest asked how many people were subscribed
to the list.  Listproc currently reports 154 addresses subscribed.

[Plus five or ten who are getting it by postal mail. -- Justin]


~Sender: arthur dent <arthur@cnj.digex.net>
~Subject: Methods of the Corporation(tactics)

...The services the corporation provides is primarily mailing lists
and insurance coverage for events, I believe we should tie our
revenues to our services instead of subsidizing the corp with
"membership" taxes

...The mailing list is a, if not THE primary corporate asset...  In
my opinion, it could easily be used to provide more DESIRED
services for those on it, and more revenue for the SCA Inc. WITHOUT
tieing it to membership...  

EXAMPLE 1:  A Medieval Yellow Pages...  

While only a Kamikaze pilot would suggest SELLING the membership
list, OFFERING as an additional service to those on the mailing
list (for additional cost of course), a publication which has a
FREE but minimal listing to, say, anybody who's rented booth space
at a certain number of SCA events, but which of course SELLS more
eye catching ad space to merchants, would be a service valued by
MANY merchants, and MANY members. The fact that it would provide
revenue at BOTH ends (from contributing merchants, and recieving
members) is NOT incedental... 

EXAMPLE 2:  INTEREST SPECIFIC interregional publications: 

a newsletters for for SPECIFIC interests (such as Fighting,
Dancing, brewing, Illumination, autocrating, seneschalate,
Marshalling, exchequer, feastocrating, archery, and others NOT TO
MENTION things like VIKING QUARTERLY, and other time/place/personna
specific,ones for Celtic,Saxon,Norman, Scots,Islamic, or French
personna of the 9th/12/15th or whatever period... 


1)It furthers the educational goal of the SCA by getting
information from those who have it SPECIFICALY to those who want it. 

2) By providing inter-regional Forums it fosters the sort of inter-
regional peer groups (yes, in both senses of the word) and common
cultures/communications that bring us together more effectively
than any structure/legislation ever could.

3) It would provide needed revenues for the corporation in exchange
for services to those on a mailing list in a manner more likely to
provoke a profound "thank you" than another revolt. 


1) The research is already being done, but being of specific,
rather than general interest it winds up either unpublished, or
published in a general interest LOCAL publication of whose
subscibers only a handful give it a passing glance... 

2)The corp need merely find an editor, offer the options as check-
boxes on membership/subscription forms, and Like mosts busineses,
pay for submissions used+ out of house production costs.  Assuming
that they keep it simple (B/W copies on folded paper, like most
local newsletters) the corp should be able to keep a reasonable
skim and still offer subscriptions at low prices ( annual cost of
$10 TOPS for quarterlies as a saddleback est.(probably more like
$5, and $15-20 for monthlies)

3) There SHOULD BE no technical problems with this from the
database/label production end. I'm a proffesional Foxpro Developer
and there is no GOOD reason this should be AT ALL difficult


** Outsourcing 

I have experience with outsourcing management services of Non-
Profit  Corporations. all of it bad.  

The dynamic of this seems to be that AFTER they have the contract, 
Management Service firms interests are to maximize profit by giving
minimum service AND that thier resources (rationaly) are allocated
to their older and larger clients first (the proven bread and
butter by which they have sustained themselves and who have thier
strongest commitment) ,and to the newer and smaller clients (by
REVENUE we're still small fish) last... 

For this reason, and because the REAL work we need done, (as
opposed to the monumental waste of effort which has been keeping it
from being done well) is a pair of fairly simple tasks, I'd
recomend against outsourcing. We really can handle it ourselves if
we just get the burden of this top-down-hierarchy reporting
structure/paperwork-first mentality off the backs of our officers
and autocrats who could then do something productive with thier


~From:  Michael G. Potter (Sir Myrdin the Just) <potterm1@iia.org>

I am still trying to decide just how centralized the SCA is right
now, but there are some areas that I believe should remain

1.   The Board of Directors

Although there may be a better way to determine Board membership
than is  currently being used, I like the idea of having a group
that can make  decisions on the broad direction of the SCA and to
be the ultimate group to  appeal decisions to.  I also feel that
this central group serves as an  important check and balance to the
decentralized nature of the SCA.

2.   Membership services

I believe in a centralized membership list.  I feel that is
important that  all paying members receive TI and that it would be
inefficient for each  kingdom to maintain their own subscription
mailing lists for their kingdom  newsletters.  Rather than create
a new "mailing list" administrative person  in each kingdom (I don
t think that it could be easily added to the duties  of the
Chronicler, especially since incompatible computers are often used 
and the office changes hands fairly often).

The centralized list also makes it easier to track such things as
growth,  renewal rates, and provides a resource that can be used to
send out mass  mailing to all members when this is needed.  It also
is an asset that can be  rented out to earn money for the corporation to
help to fund corporate  activities (I m not a huge fan of junk mail, but I
find that if the advertisements are for items that I m interested in,
suddenly it s not really junk mail to me).

The membership list could be improved by adding "non-paying"
members to it.   This would be especially useful when a mailing to
all participants of the  SCA is needed.

3.   Insurance

Although I have often heard that many kingdoms feel that they could
obtain  insurance for a lower cost, I feel that by having a central
purchase of  insurance, the average cost per member would be lower.

4.   Martial and Heraldic standards

The Society-wide minimums for armor and weapons provide a good
grounding for  the martial activities in each kingdom.  The
heraldic database is an  excellent example of a fee based service
that serves all participants.

These are just the items that I feel strongly about keeping
centralized.  In  my work as an auditor, I see the power of
"empowerment" or moving decision  making to the lowest level
possible (decentralization), but I also have seen  the real need
for review and supervision by a centralized organization and  the
leverage that one centralized organization for administrative items 
(such as the membership list) could provide. [...]

Michael G. Potter; 121 Westview Terrace; Rochester, NY 14620
[Phone:]  My job is so high travel that calling 201-455-2815 and
leaving a message is  the best way to reach me.  If you have access
to the internet, finger potterm1@iia.org  usually results in where
I currently am including the phone number.

continued in pt 2

Dani of the Seven Wells

   "[Take] one ounce of aconite, two ounces of good arsenic, a
    quarter of a pound of pork fat, a pound of wheat flour, and
    four eggs.  Make bread of this..." -- Le menagier de Paris

Xref: netcom.com rec.org.sca:108045
Path: netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!asia.lm.com!not-for-mail
From: dani@telerama.lm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Grand Council Monthly Summary 3/95 Pt.2 of 2
Date: 3 Apr 1995 16:45:32 -0500
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA USA
Lines: 876
Message-ID: <3lpq9s$bj5@asia.lm.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: asia.lm.com

[continued from pt.1]

                  Grand Council Chronicle

                  Issue #8 -- March 22, 1995

Greetings unto the Grand Council from Justin du Coeur! 

In issue 7, Bertrik writes:

>Alltough I can understand the haste that some have in getting the
>discussion started,I am hoping that we all wanted to build some solid
>(With that I mean, excisting past the date of jan 1997) organ out of
>this grand Councel.

I do *not* agree with this -- I disagree most fervently.

The GC was set up specifically to be a limited-time affair, a one-
shot body intended to provide recommendations for the Society's
broad structural problems. It was *deliberately* not constituted to
be an ongoing body, and it is not clear whether its basic charter
is appropriate to an ongoing task...

Yes, there may be a need for an ongoing philosophical body.
Frankly, it should be the Board -- that's what Boards of Directors
are *supposed* to do. The GC is needed because our current Board is
wildly over-burdened with putting out immediate fires. But in the
long run, I really hope that the Board will be freed up to do this
sort of long-term strategic thinking. (All of this, of course,
assuming that we wind up retaining the central Corporation, which
is likely although not certain.)


>From ALBAN@delphi.com Sat Mar 18 21:38:48 1995

background: alban st. albans is a low- to mid-level bureaucrat in
the court of Henry VII, by grace of god king  of england; i had a
long and sordid history, but now am content to live modestly and
quietly, with the hopes of eventually marrying, having kids, and
dying peacefully in my bed of nothing more than old age. 

ted eisenstein has a ba in history and art history, and a bs  in
data processing, both of which proved to be useless in finding good
jobs (phd's in art history are driving taxis,  and i got the bs/dp
3 months after two major st. louis employers cut back severely and
flooded the marked with experienced computer people). i've also had
some additional schooling in biology and in law (1 1/2 years,
before i got disgusted with it). i'm now a gentleman farmer, with
a 1480 acre farm out in rural mid-missouri, which allows me enough
time (especially in non-growing seasons, which means late september
through late march) to do a lot of reading and sca stuff.
interests: researching  brewing, cooking, and herbs and
agricultural-type things (i'm a decent liqueur maker and
indifferent cook, but love  doing the research....). sca awards so
far are for service (the  calontir orders of the torse (aoa level)
and cross of calontir  (goa level), mainly for heraldry. for a
while i was the morsulus herald, on laurel king of arm's staff for
maintenance and publication of the armorial and ordinary; calontir
clerk of the precedence; registrar for the  calontir royal
university; and am currently lanner herald,  one of the calontir
commenters on internal and external letters of intent. i also have
a small side business of selling  books at pennsic and other events
(mainly books put out by sca members - complete anachronists,
heraldic symposia, cookbooks, songbooks, miscellanies). i've been
in the sca since october of 1975, and have regretted recently 
meeting college freshmen who were born after i joined.  i've been
in calontir since i joined (except for a very brief  time when i
was housesitting in atlantia), and more specifically been a
resident of the barony of three rivers (st.  louis) and the shire
of the standing stones (columbia, mo).  email address: i prefer
alban@delphi.com, but can also be reached at alban@aol.com. 
snailmail: ted eisenstein, 3940 highway h, fayette, mo., 65248. 
(816) 456-7590, no calls after 11:00 PM central time, and if you call
before 11:00 am, expect some snarling and rude comments.

[...] corporate services: it's too early to go into this in any
depth, but i'd like to suggest that people start thinking about not
only what parts/services of the corporation may need to be changed
or eliminated, but which services they'd like the corporation to
add, if any. a really good library available at corporate offices?
a known-world-sponsored living history farm? travelling road shows
going to high schools, dealing with a day in the life of a  french
13th century noble (or at least scripts for such)? the  sca, inc.,
is, at least on paper, dedicated to research into and  the re-
creation of pre-1600 european history; shouldn't, techinically, the
corporation actually being doing this as  well as us local groups?
or should the corporate papers be  changed to reflect what the
corporation is actually doing?

about one of the items caroline forbes mentioned in chronicle 7, in
re. lightening the load of the board members: this may be no more
than a reluctance on the part of some board members to delegate,
and then get out of the way. the board should set broad strategic
policy, and  then let the great officers or other duly-chosen
representatives set tactics. (admittedly, there have been problems
with this, but the board shouldn't completely abandon delegation
just because of an occasional blip.)


Greetings unto the Gentles of the Rialto and Reform list from Lady
Caroline   Forbes of Oxfordshire, Grand Council Coordinator!
The nominating committee has finished its work to complete the
roster of   gentles on the Grand Council. The entire list is below.
Those not confirmed   at the October or January Board meetings will
be confirmed at the April meeting. [...]
 Grand Council List as of 16 March 1994
 In alphabetical order by SCA first name
Honorable Lord    Alban St Albans / Edward L. Eisenstein
Mistress    Alienor Llanfaes / Colette Goodyear
Lady        Alysoun de Ros / Carole C. Roos
Lord        Arthur the Dented / Scott Keys
Master      Bertram of Bearington / P. David Schroeder
Lord        Bertrik van Triecht / Bart Orbons
Lord        Brian O'Seabac / Guy M. Cox
Sir         Brion Thornbird / Brian R. Price
Duke        Cariadoc of the Bow / David D Friedman
Lady        Caroline Forbes / Carol L Smith
Lady        Catrin Gwyntstlum / Janna Geggus Spanne
Baron       Corwyn Da Costa / Manuel Martin Costa
Sir         Edric Aaron Hartwood / Kristofer Hellstrom
Lady        Eichling von Amrum / Janet Chennault
Sir         Eric Bearsbane / Eric Wagner
Lord        Fiacha Mac Neill / Nigel R. Haslock
Duke        Finnvarr de Taahe / Steve Muhlberger
Duke        Frederick of Holland / Frederick J. Hollander
Lord        Frithiof Skagge / Sven Noren
Sir         Galen Eadwin Kirchenbauer / Galen W. Bevel
Master      Gareth ap Tancred / Roy Gathercoal
Duke        Gyrth Oldcastle / Gerald O'Leary
Honorable Lord Hossein Ali Qomi / Greg Rose
Baroness    Isabeau of the Wylde Woode / Angie Eves-Welsh
Master      John of Sternfeld / John Elmore
Master      Justin du Coeur / Mark Waks
Sir         Kyle of Kincora / Rolland K Smith
Lord        Magnus Maquire / James D. McManus
Master      Michael Fenwick / Michael L. Andrews
Lord        Modius Monsdraconis / Erik Langhans
Sir         Myrdin the Just / Michael G. Potter
Sir         Nathan Adelaar / Nathan Clarenburg
Duke        Olaf Askoldssonn / Charles Michael Curtis
Mistress    Randell Raye of Crianlarich / Laureen Hart
Lady        Sarah / Karen Penn
Baron       Serwyl ap Morgan / Chuck Hack
Lord        Terras / Joseph J. Heck
Lord        Tibor of Rock Valley / Mark Schuldenfrei
Eques       Titus Claudius / Tod Huckaby


>From Carole.C.Roos.2@nd.edu
~Subject: CG: Introduction, Concerns about purpose

Greetings from Alysoun. I am honored to be among you. I am a 13th-
century Englishwoman and an editor at a university press.


Can we agree that the SCA is an organization? (Never mind for now
how it is organized or the relation of the different parts.)
Organizations can be divided into two types: (1) those in which the
members serve the organization and (2) those in which the
organization serves the members. This is the difference between,
say, a preservation society and a bowling league. In the first,
people join to support the goals of the organization (save the
historic district); in the second, the organization exists to
support the goals of the members (opportunities to bowl). Of
course, every organization has a mix-the first fosters members with
t-shirts and appreciation dinners and the second has people
promoting the league and doing the paperwork-but you see the basic

If we consider the SCA as the first type, we should begin by
looking at the goals of the organization and analyze everything
else in terms of those goals. If we consider the SCA as the second
type, we should begin by defining the membership and its goals, and
work from there...

Carole Roos; 1107 N. Notre Dame Ave.; South Bend, IN 46617


~Subject: Message from John of Sternfeld for the GC


A Board of Directors in a mundane corporation does not involve
itself in daily issues or make decisions that affect single or
small groups of individuals.  We have allowed our BoD to become the
directors of our almost every move - 100% of the authority rests on
them.  We have proven this doesn't work.  That responsibility would
be too much for full timers, our directors are supposed to be
donating part of their play-time.

For starters, I agree...the BoD should not be in the medieval side
of the game unless there is a dire emergency that will affect 100%
of the populus - like fighting with steel.  Their responsibilities
should lie within the modern world; insurance and national legal
situations are the biggies that come to mind.

Medieval policies, like weapons, award structures, banishments
should be out of the board room.  Yes, the BoD would have to set
the policy for things like banishments, but reviewing every last
case is absurd (IMHO).  Decisions in the medieval context should be
handled in some period fashion - treaties between the Kingdoms?,
elected or appointed Council (term long enough to avoid being
yanked for unpopular desisions).

My bottomline here is our BoD's area of responsibility should be
comparable to that of a corporation, not the cairs of every
committee in the club.


Put this at the Kingdom level - where it is used.  Even in the
Middle our share (~4500) could be run on a PC or minicomputer by a
volunteer.  As the Society continues to grow a nation registry
database [will] require more and more funds - I'm hearing
complaints now at the level of membership funds required.  The
alternative is to rent time on a capable system or build our own. 
Time from a professional data base company may be reasonably cost
wise, but the response time will not be better than what we have now.

Most all of the modern world's national magazines are on databases
somewhere in Boulder, CO or Iowa?  Ever try to get a subscription
address changed in less than 3 months?  I believe a local dedicated
system would be much more responsive.  The catch of course will be
finding enough people and equipment willing to perform this
function for each Kingdom.

TI - publisher sells copies at cost to each Kingdom, they stick
their own labels and postage on'em.  Subscription form for all
Kingdom newsletters could be included in TI.


~From: Nigel Haslock <haslock@oleum.zso.dec.com>

Greetings from Fiacha,

History - Born and raised in Liverpool. Studied Mathematics at the 
University there and drivted into computer sciences. Eventually
left the  nest to start a career programming and doing related
stuff in London.  After a handful of years wandered to Switzerland
and explored landmarks  like the birthplace of the Hapsburg
dynasty. After four more years  migrated to New Jersey and finally
made contact with the SCA. After 8  years  migrated again to the
countryside within striking distance of  Seattle (and still doing
programming and related stuff).

Background - Long standing interest in making things and minor
interests  in weapons, armor and heraldry. Attenpted to train as
heavy, make armor,  register name and device early on. Had a few
bad experiences (in  authorization bouts) and decided to give up
fighting (E.K. does not allow non-fighting marshalls so I have
taken little interest in fighting since  then. Took office as
Baronial Seneschal in 87 and help it until I moved  to AnTir in 90.
Took office as Kingdom Gamesmaster in 92 and passed on  the office
this last Twelfth Night. Filled idle moments making things (I 
think that my weaving is above average and that everything else is
at  journeyman level and that most people are easily impressed) and
making  trouble on the Rialto and more recently on sca-reform and
the Cathedral  Steps (AnTir's mailing list).

Politics - I was brought up in a Barony that believed that the
Society  was open to all with out the need for paid memberships,
that encouraged  unity by allowing everyone to do what they thought
was fun and by having  leaders for Baron and Baroness rather than
climbers. {A leader is not  threatened by someone who skills equal
or exceed their own. A climber  must constantly strive to be
visibly better at everything.}

Thus I favor a structure for the society makes it easy for leaders
to  shine, makes it cheap and easy to join and makes it easy to
learn from  the errors of our predeceasors.


      * * * * A PROPOSAL * * * *

I would like to separate the SCA Inc. Bylaws from Corpora. I would
like  the Bylaws to be the document that the Board and the
realtionship between  the Board and the Kingdoms that comprise the
Society. I would like  Corpora to describe the framework of a
kingdom and its interactions with  other kingdoms and with its
populace. This is not a matter of changing any  of the existing
rules. It is a matter or moving some rules from one  document to
the other.

Thus I propose that a sub committee be formed to examine the
existing  documents and preparing separable versions of them. I
would be happy to  join such a committee but I would prefer not to
be the chair.

One of the more valuable aspects of this effort would be the
ability to  require foreign national kingdoms to comply with
Corpora while tying them  to the bylaws of a corporation with a set
of bylaws that satisfy the  needs of the host nation instead of the
current U.S. centric regulations that are not universally


~From: ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu (Joseph Heck)

...Hello, I'm Terras - 

I've been in the SCA for ten years now, staying primarily within
Calontir  and the Middle Kingdom. I have worked at most every level
within a  kingdom, from support for a Crown, local seneschal, local
minister of  Arts and Sciences, to a deputy Kingdom officer. My
personal interestes  have ranged from metalwork to calligraphy, all
of which I continue to work on.

I currently live in Calontir.

 joe                          (314) 882-5000


[From Randell Raye]

[...] To introduce myself -- I am Randell Raye of Crianlarich, a
mid 14th century Scottish lass living in the Kingdom of An Tir with
my adored early 16th century Italian mate. In my youth I traveled
to France to accompany the young exiled King David II; this gave me
a lifelong taste for travel. My other passions include cookery and
costuming. I have been active in the SCA for 19 years.

Laureen Rae Hart is a Food Scientist currently seeking employment
in food product development. I have lived all 37 of my years in
Seattle, Washington. Having joined the SCA in my late teens, lived
through the An Tir rebellion and subsequent Kingdom formation, I
hope to be able to bring a broad perspective to our discussion. I
am open minded and have already been greatly stimulated by the
discussion in the chronicles so far.

Randell Raye of Crianlarich;  c/o Laureen Hart; 14550 20th Ave. NE;
Seattle, WA 98155   206-361-9545

                  Grand Council Chronicle

                  Issue #9 -- March 29, 1995


Greetings to the Grand Council from Finnvarr de Taahe, otherwise
known as  Steve Muhlberger, one of your new colleagues...

My persona I consider irrelevant to this discussion.  After you've
been in the SCA for awhile, your "persona" is your past history. 
Mine is rather extensive.  I joined the SCA in 1970, in East
Lansing, Michigan, and was one of the founders of North Woods, an
early Middle Kingdom group.  I was knighted there in 1971. I moved
to the East Kingdom for the year 1972-73, during which I won the
Crown and commanded the Eastern forces at Pennsic II.

In 1973, I moved back to the Middle Kingdom, to Toronto, to go to
grad school.  By 1975, with the help of others, I had founded the
shire of Eoforwic (Toronto); later on I helped organize the barony
of Septentria (originally all of Ontario) and the prinicipality of
Ealdormere (almost all of Ontario).  I won the crown of the Middle
Kingdom in 1976 and led the Midrealm into battle at Pennsic VI.  In
1978 I was elevated to the Order of the Pelican.  I have other
awards for arts (calligraphy and history writing), autocratting,
and other service.  I have been Earl Marshal of the Middle Kingdom,
as well as Kingdom historian and Kingdom Information Officer. From
1984-1986 I was a director of the SCA, Inc.

Over the last ten years, I have been less active than before,
because my other responsibilities have increased.  I am an
associate professor of history at Nipissing University, in North
Bay, Ontario.  My chief SCA activities are fighting_when I get the
chance_advising my squires (something they don't seem to mind too
much, since they usually ask for the advice), and, with my lady,
autocratting a yearly war/equestrian event on our own property.  I
am knight marshal of our local shire, Flaming Sky.  It is a rather
small group that has at most two full-dress events a year.

My interest in being on the Grand Council is simple.  I am all in
favor of a less cumbersome mundane umbrella for the SCA.  On the
other hand, I think we need to preserve some of the things that
have been built up over the years.

I think it is a great achievement that people from Sweden can go to
Hawaii and play more or less the same game.  I particularly think
it important to maintain certain common standards for our fighting;
the portability of peerages and royal rank are also good things, I
think, because they are one of the things that gives us that sense
of international community.  (It is probably far too late for
portability of at least some lesser awards; that too would have
been nice.)

We will not have these things without either a single overarching
corporation or perhaps a family of national or regional
corporations with clearly defined relationships.  And although we
all like the fact that the SCA is a voluntary organization, we
cannot have common standards without a certain number of rules,
some sanctions for enforcement, even a certain amount of taxation.

The question is, how much and what kind of rules, enforcement, and
taxation will we have, and at what level?  It is convenient to
blame the board and the corporation for all our troubles; however,
in my own experience as the SCA, both as a dues-paying member and
as a director, I have seen as much, and suffered as much from,
useless bureaucracy and arbitrary behavior at the kingdom,
principality, and barony level as I ever have from board dictates. 
I think that most of our organizational troubles come from the fact
that most people have a hard time visualizing organizations except
on the Prussian General Staff/General Motors model_a pyramidal
structure of reporting and authority.  I hope that our GC
discussions will bring forward a number of other models, and we can
find something better.  I don't think it will be easy!

This has gone on too long, but there is one more thing.  When I was
on the board, one of its most important functions was bringing
strong-minded experienced people from different parts of the SCA
face to face with their disagreements about how the SCA should
work.  It was always clear to us that unless we seven could agree
on a policy, there was no chance that we could sell it to the rest
of the Known World.

Out of this experience, I urge that the GC make no recommendations
without consensus or near-consensus.  I am not optimistic about
unanimity among 40 people, so that can't be a requirement; but just
remember that any disagreements in this body will reflect even
greater ones among the membership as a whole.

Finnvarr de Taahe
Steve Muhlberger; RR#1 Box 123, Bonfield Ontario, P0H 1E0   
CANADA; 705 776-1247


~Subject: SCA in Canada

Master Sylard of Eagleshaven, OL, an experienced member of the SCA
in  Ontario (Principality of Ealdormere, Middle Kingdom), has asked
me to send  this along.

...Over the years, I, as well as others, have made attempts to make
the Board of Directors  address the simple fact the Canada is a
foreign and sovereign nation where different laws and processes are
in force. The response to these questions and comments has often
been patronizing, and almost always totally uninformed.

[Background omitted.  The numbers used later in this message are
produced and justified here, among things.]  


I made a number of discrete inquires, under the cover of my own
business, of  the Ontario government (retail sales tax branch.)
Inquiries were made  concerning a fictional War of 1812 re-creation
group, holding several  camping events a year for its 100 members
only, who charged 'costs only' for  dinners to its members. I was
told that such a group (similar to the SCA)  would be required to
register for a vendor permit and be responsible for  collecting PST
(of 8%) on every meal sold (lunches and feasts).

The Ontario Sales Tax guide states the following:
1) You need a vendor permit if you regularly make taxable sales. 2)
This includes the sale of prepared food products with a total
charge of  more than $4.00.
3)Note that "non-profit organizations - unless they regularly sell
taxable  goods and devices" do not need a vendor permit.

Obviously further inquiries need to be made on the Ontario
Government. I was  concerned about 'fingering' the SCA to the tax
department if I got too  specific. If the information I was given
is in fact correct, the Corporation  is responsible to Ontario for
over $1600 each year.

A)To become a "non-profit organization" in the eyes of the Ontario 
Government, it is required to register as such. The cost of such a 
registration appears to be about $150.  Does Ontario Ministry of
Revenue recognize the current American organization  as such? Will
separate registration of a "SCA Ontario" be required?

B) What is the structure of registration for vendor permits, if
required?   As individual groups, or registration at a regional
level? Who collects,  keeps track of, and remits the required taxes?

C) How do the existing group bank accounts, and their related
interest  income, fit into the structure?


Many Canadian members are constantly being required to compile
information  for Corporation to be sent to the American Internal
Revenue Service. This  includes moneys relating to demos and
events, expenditures and inventories.  Despite the fact that the
Corporation is registered a legal 'non-profit  educational
institution', constant effort is being expended to prove this 
fact. About 3 years ago, inquires were made of Revenue Canada as to
whether  the Corporation was in fact registered with the Canadian
Government as  'non-profit'. Not too surprisingly the answer was no.

A) How does the Revenue Canada view the Corporation, and its
operations  within Canada?

B) Any organization that sells a product or service in Canada, if
the total  yearly sales exceed $30,000 (CDN), is required to remit
a tax of 7% to  Revenue Canada. This 'Goods and Services Tax' - the
GST, is payable whether  the seller  is 'non-profit' or not.
(UNICEF, for example.) Note that while  'memberships' may not be
taxable, magazine subscriptions certainly are. (For  example,
despite 'membership' in the National Geographic Society, GST is 
still paid on the magazine.) 'Tournaments Illuminated' is certainly
a  magazine subscription. What is the status, according to Revenue
Canada, of  the kingdom newsletters?  About  of the fees sent from
Ontario alone is for  subscriptions. Is the total value of all
magazines sent to Canadian members  over $30,000?

C) One of the way Revenue Canada spots tax evasion is by comparing
Canadian  bank records of interest payments with the tax reports
made each year. How  is the (estimated) $300 in interest payments
paid to individual groups each  year reported (if at all) to
Revenue Canada? It is certain that the banks  will not absorb the
taxes levied on these amounts.

D) The Corporation has continued to require that any regalia
created be  listed and valued on inventories sent to the IRS. This
may be reasonable for  those items donated to kingdom officers,
which then leave this country. What  is the true status of those
items that are paid for, produced  and then  donated to Canadian
offices (Principality and Baronial)? Since these items  are
Canadian made and remain in Canada, how does Revenue Canada view
these  items?

These matters are far from trivial.... All levels of government in
Canada are experiencing severe financial problems currently. With
mounting deficits comes increasing pressures to  generate larger
tax revenues. The elusive "Underground Economy" is a constant
target of tax collectors at all levels. Small businesses, contractors,
farmers and craftsmen are all being subjected to often ruthless audits and
their associated penalties. The activities of the Corporation  certainly
appear to fall within this grey area.  Unfortunately it will be local
officers, not the distant Directors, who will face Canadian Government
officials over personal audits, and bear the considerable legal trouble
and expenses that will result.

Darrell Markewitz
(Master Sylard of Eagleshaven)



[...] *Alban St. Albans* ruminated on *adding* services to be run
by the  corporation.  If we have problems running a central mailing
list (and its  obvious that people on this council are
dissatisfied), our present  corporation cannot possibly take on any
of the worthy projects Alban  suggests.  Nor need we.  The SCA,
Inc. need not apologize for a lack of  centrally directed research. 
Insofar as it has been a success as an  umbrella group, it has been
successful in promoting all the research by the  members (however

[...] *John of Sternfeld* said:
>We have allowed our BoD to become the directors of our almost
>every move - 100% of the authority rests on them.

As an ex-Director, I would put it more strongly.  In my time,
people were  always *demanding* that the Board take on new
responsibilities.  In other  words, I agree with John's point that
too much is expected of the Board, and  proper delegation of
responsibility is a must.   How to structure delegation  and how to
put appropriate checks in place, that is the problem.

*Terras* brought up the question of goals.  I do not think that the
GC or  any other body in the SCA has a mandate to monkey with the
overall goals of  the SCA.   Let the individual members hash these
out among themselves, as  they do anyway.  Anyone who tries to
alter the basic guidelines will raise a  storm that will make last
year's look like small potatoes.


~From: Janna.Spanne@kansli.lth.se

Greetings from Catrin Gwynystlum. The story is fairly trivial: I
was born around 1100 as a daughter of a Bohemian knight and I ran
away from home to escape an arranged marriage. For a time I roamed
Europe from Nidaros to Granada in man's clothes, making a living
reading and writing for people, bodyguarding merchants' wives on
pilgrimage, telling stories in taverns and cutting an occasional
purse. Eventually I found a Welsh lover and followed him to his
lord's and lady's household in Wales to become the lady's secretary
and messenger; that's where my assumed Welsh name comes from. In my
lady's service I frequently get to visit Nordmark and various other
parts of the Known World.

Greetings also from Catarina Santalis, born just after 1400, the
daughter of an itinerant Italian actor's wife and a minor nobleman
someplace just north of the Alps. The bonus the nobleman paid my
mother was sufficient for my stepfather to set himself up as a
dancing master in Florence, where he trained me in his trade.
Eventually I married a mathematician, the head of a Florentine
merchant's counting house, but I revert to my stepfather's trade
when visiting the Known World.

Janna G. Spanne, Czech by origin, living in Sweden since around
1970, has a MA in theoretical linguistics, but ekes out a living at
the administrative office of the Lund Institute of Technology. She
joined the SCA in AS XXII, served as Chronicler in her local group
for more years than she cares to remember, was for a while local
Seneschal and is now local Chirurgeon and apprentice in the
Drachenwald Chirurgeons' Guild. Other favorite SCA occupations are
autocrating, cooking, dancing, teaching and reconstructing period



~Subject: Grand Council commentary from Sir Titus of Outlands

[...] Tod Huckaby started in the Society in Ansteorra in 1982.  My
initial experience in the society was trying to learn how to do the
SCA and form a group at the same time.  After college, my lady and
I moved to the Barony of Namron and played there until the fall of
1987.  My lady's graduate work guided us to the Outlands and to the
then Shire of Unser Hafen (Fort Collins).  It was in Unser Hafen
that we really became more actively involved in the Society.  We
both were officers in the Barony from 1988 onward.  I was selected
as Seneschal to help coordinate the drive to make the Shire a
Barony which we successfully achieved in October of 1990.  I was
Knighted by TRMs Cyredd and Morgana in October of 1992.  I have
also served as a Shire Hospitaller and Baronial Archer Marshall. 
My Lady and I were selected by TRMs Artan IIII and Aziza to be the
Baron and Baroness of Unser Hafen in July of 1994.  We are still
serving in these capacities.

In the SCA, I enjoy being a Roman, fighting, dancing, keeping
newcomers interested, historical research, wearing gaudy Roman
costumes, participation in SCA Universities, and doing demos.  I
really enjoy the use of personas in the society and have always
wanted to explore early period.  So I selected a Roman Imperial
persona from the height of the Empire around 110 AD. 

Titus Claudius Severus is a Roman Cavalry officer serving the
Emperor Trajan in the XXth Legion in the province of
Britania.  He found his way to this strange province called the
Outlands and has been serving the Outlands' Emperors first as
pedes, then working his way through the ranks to become an Eques in
1992 by their Gregorian calender.  Tod Huckaby is an attorney
turned Political Science Instructor who was motivated to apply for
GC membership when his view of the dream became marred by
oppressive behavior by the National Corporation.  I feel that one
of my responsibilities as a GC member is to represent smaller SCA
groups (there are out there groups of 10-15 people that
participate in the dream, hold events, and need assistance and
support from a caring and sensitive national organization) and
small kingdoms as well.

[...] 8.b.  John-"....level of direct responsibility be lowered..."
This works only if have enough volunteers to fill regional or
principality offices.  On 501(c)3 status.  This works only if the
National Corporation can be so distanced from local groups as to
make the existence of the National Corporation moot.  A plaintiff's
attorney will sue all involved individuals, his local SCA group,
the Kingdom, and the entire SCA and let them point fingers at each

[...] III.  Other Issues and Concerns  :
    I do not like the $3.00 surcharge.  I realize that not all
Kingdoms enforce this, but mine does.  None of the groups or
Kingdoms that have to pay and collect this surcharge ever see a
penny of it.  It increases the burden on local SCA groups in their
book keeping efforts and adds on a layer of complexity to event
coordinators that serves no real purpose but to enrich the National
Organization.  The BOD has had workable funding before this
surcharge with voluntary membership dues.

     Now onto the increase in membership dues.  The increase is too
much.   Raising membership rate at that level is a bit high but it
is preferable to imposing a surcharge on non-members, but to do
both and increase membership rates by $10-15 is an
overkill.  If the amount must be increased, a $5.00 increase
annually until the target amount is reached is less painful, a
little more tolerable and probably more preferable to most paying
SCA members.

My address and phone number which is publishable is Tod Huckaby,
2012 Orchard Place, Fort Collins, CO 80521  (303) 490-2936.  Email
can be sent to me at dlc@fc.hp.com
but I am not on the network and rely on Justin's mailings.



~From: Eichling

   Eichling is a 10th century Viking.  After hurriedly leaving the
small island of Amrum, she indentured herself to the Jewish
merchant Uncle Samuel, where she learned literacy and a profession. 
She has subsequently earned her living as an armed
chaperone("Custodio ipsos Custodies "); she is currently opening a
small trading venture.  

Janet L. Chennault joined the SCA in the Kingdom of the West, about
17 years ago.  When she got out of the military, she journeyed
southward to Caid, where she has remained since, outside of a year
spent in the pleasant kingdom of Calontir.  By profession a medical
technologist, she is currently involved in the startup of a small

Eichling von Amrum;  Janet L. Chennault; 15538 Cobalt St.; Sylmar,
CA 91342


~Sender: arthur dent <arthur@cnj.digex.net>


I can think of a lot of options to direct election of board members
by  the membership which might be OK, and the reason I,ve
considered them is  my natural distrust of 'popularity contest'
elections, and a distaste for  electioneering. Also a lot that goes 
on in elective politics is  intentionaly divisive at worst, and
time consuming and expensive at best...


~From: rgathercoal@foxmail.gfc.edu (Roy Gathercoal)

...Perhaps one of the perception-problems of the Society has been
its dedication to keeping its problems hidden.  One of the greatest
services of the corporate structure has been dealing with
potentially disruptive behavior at the local group level.  

To help me visualize how a decentralized Society would work, could
someone explore how we would deal with the following situations in
a decentralized Society, for example?

1.  A lucrative (in money and potential new members) demo
opportunity comes up in a town.  The head of a household (in
another town) makes use of personal contacts with people in the
other organization to gain control of the demo and uses it to wrest
concessions from the local group.  Currently, we can deal with this
scenario by insisting that households and other unofficial groups
not use the name SCA (and the implication of organizational
credibility and resources) without the sponsorship of a local
branch.  How would we deal with this if anyone who wanted to start
a group could?  

2.  Most groups have found that sites suitable for events are
growing increasingly rare.  Currently someone who is not a
representative of an official branch may not secure a site in our
(collective) names.  This is at least as much due to the protection
of our good name as any scant legal protection.  But under the
decentralized model, how would we prevent some group of
irresponsible people from securing a site in our name, then
behaving in such a way as to make it less likely that site owners
would have us back?  This may not be such a problem in big cities,
but I have seen sites dry up in smaller communities after a "bad"

3.  A regional pornographic magazine runs a S&M pictorial about
"women in chainmail" featuring interviews from people identifying
themselves as from the SCA and describing the orgies that occur at
(some) SCA events.  This sort of unsavory thing is now handled
quietly, usually by stressing to people that they are free to
individually say what they like, but are not free to invoke the
name of the SCA in doing so.  Unwillingness or inability to see
this distinction could lead to banishment or revocation of
membership.  What sanctions, if any, would be available under a
decentralized model.

4.  Currently, a sizeable hunk of the budget goes to supporting the
recordkeeping required for subscriptions and memberships.  Having
run a newsletter with a subscription list of a couple hundred
people, and having designed and serviced databases serving
thousands, I understand the jump in complexity that occurs
somewhere around 1000 (give or take a few hundred).  Would we pay
for decentralized member services by increasing fees, relying on
volunteers in each kingdom or by some other means?  (I know of
several kingdoms who have had difficulty in filling current offices
with competent people, and it would surely cost much more to pay 13
part time people than a few full time people, yet there seems to be
a widespread sentiment that membership already costs too much).   



~From: modius@dobharchu.org (Erik Langhans)

Introduction.  The year is 1545.  Though originally from Hamburg
(born 1515), since the age of 16 I have been fighting battles
across Europe as a Landsknecht with the Schwarze Gesellschaft. For
the last three years I have held the position of Commander of the
Dritte Fahnlein of the Schwarze Gesellschaft.  In addition to my
involvement with Rapier Combat I am Ansteorra's Deputy Kingdom
Hospitaler, Ansteorra's Wakeforest Pursurvant Herald, and a local
Rapier Marshal.

In the mundane world I come from a heavy Strategic
Planning/Consulting background.  My specialty is Management and
Marketing consulting.  For the last three years I have been with a
firm which specializes in Market Research and Consulting. Relevant
to the task which confronts us, I have held positions on three
Boards and been involved with and led teams tasked with corporate

Underlying Thought.  Because we were formed as an advisory
committee, we have no power to bring our recommendations into
existence.  We must rely on the BoD to do so.

Thus, I feel we must attempt at all costs to provide ACTIONABLE
recommendations.  Ones which are implementable and that we have
received feedback on.  Brainstorming is great as long as we put
together recommendations the BoD will use.


This condensed digest may be obtained by email
(dani@telerama.lm.com) or through the mail (send 2-oz SASE to Dani
Zweig,  7634 Westmoreland Ave.,  Pittsburgh, PA 15218). 

The full GC Chronicles may be obtained electronically by sending
the message SUBSCRIBE SCAGC-L <Your Name Here>   to
They may also be obtained through the mail from Phyllis Gilmore, 
P.O. Box 13042,  Torrance, CA 90503-0042 (gilmore@rand.org) for
printing and postage costs.

A raw weekly transcript can be obtained by mail from Azelin of
Wishford (Peter Rose) P.O. Box 3072,  Kingston, RI 02881, USA

In Drachenwald contact 
Janna G Spanne,  Nyckelkroken 50, S-226 47 Lund,  Sweden
Phone +46 (country) (0)46 (area) 109750 office      +46 (0)46 129985 home, 
no later than 9 pm local time     fax +46 (0)46 104531.

Back issues may be obtained electronically from archives via: 
* FTP at   ftp.gc.sca.org 
* Gopher at   gopher://lists.princeton.edu/11/scagc-l
* WWW at   http://www.inmet.com/~justin/gc/

Dani of the Seven Wells

   "[Take] one ounce of aconite, two ounces of good arsenic, a
    quarter of a pound of pork fat, a pound of wheat flour, and
    four eggs.  Make bread of this..." -- Le menagier de Paris