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Re[4]: Earl Dafydd

Lord Leifr responds:

>>     Peers (that's Knights, Laurels, AND Pelicans) are NOT "made", "built" 
>>     or whatever else fits the pattern. Peers are RECOGNIZED.
>I really hate that phrase.  In the first place, it's not universal to 
>the Society, it's particular to Atlantia.  

While I cannot say with certainty that the sentiment is universal (I have 
not spoken to nobles from EVERY kingdom about matters such as this), I 
can say that the sentiment is certainly shared in the kingdoms of 
Drachenwald, East, West, Middle, Meridies, Trimaris, Atenveldt, and 
Ansteorra (aside from our dear kingdom). That may not seem "universal" to 
you--but it's certainly close enough for me.

[snipped for brevity]

I don't believe the orders are "avoiding" problems or shirking duties. I 
believe this is an outward display of THEIR philosophy of recognition 
rather than construction.

>Still I think it should be possible to identify likely candidates to be 
>MADE peers, after all we've been doing this for thirty years.
I stand by what I said before. If I don't have what it takes to be a 
peer, NOTHING Gyrth can do will "make" me one. Face it, you can't turn 
lead into gold--and you can't "make" a peer.

>Second.  If a candidate actually behaves like a peer; dresses spiff, 
>expresses opinions, builds a household, and particularly,  teaches, then 
>he or she is as often as not accused of putting on airs.  

If you know of some particular instance, please let us all know. I 
haven'tcheard of it but that hardly means it's not happening. Of course, 
if you're referring to peers who consider their excrement to be without 
odor, I'll pass on some advice from my past experience with the US Armed 
Forces--"Assholes are everywhere."

[snipped for brevity]
>Third.  There have been obvious cases of severe burn-outcof candidates 
>who'vectried to maintain Peer-Quality while lacking the privledges of a 

That is exactly the attitude that steams me. Peerage as Prize--Peerage as 
Reward. A Peerage is not just another Cookie!
>Fourth and most importantly.  As with blow acknowledgement, Atlantia is 
>supposed to be playing the same game as the rest of the Society.  Many 
>of the knights who move into Atlantia from out of kingdom are not "Gods 
>of Death" or "Mutants (a term only used for candidates)".  Rather they 
>are good fighters who can teach and who first demonstrate the important 
>"Peer" qualities.  This fixation in Atlantia with peerage "Standards" 
>seems to imply that the other kingdoms make peers without regard their 
>effect on the rest of the Society.  

TIME OUT. Are you complaining that we have reduced the Peerages to 
checklists (my main beef with your earlier posts) or that we don't hold 
the Peers of other Kingdoms in equal esteem to our own?

I don't believe the former is happening or should ever happen; the latter is 
plain bad manners and should be corrected. But you'll need to clarify that point
for me.