Re: U.B.A.G

[Corun MacAnndra <corun@access.digex.net>]

Poster: Corun MacAnndra <corun@access.digex.net>

I have been staying out of this discussion up until now, but I think there
are few points here that need be addressed more directly.

Leifr wrote:
>
>I am glad to hear that, Your Excellency.  Now could you please explain where
>Mr. David Kuijt derives the authority to tell other members of the SCA 
>what they may and may not do at an event?

Mr. Kuijt has the same authority any member of the Society has to tell
anyone, member or otherwise, that what they are doing is upsetting a segment
of the populace at a given event, or within the confines of the locality
encompassed by a given group within the Society. He merely pointed out that
he was speaking as just another member of the Society, not as the King, who
was asked by a segment of the immediate population to step in, as someone in
authority, to deal with the situation. That he handled it politely and as a
member of the Society, rather than as King of Atlantia, is to his credit,
and probably made the request more palatable to the offenders. Being a
current Wearer of a Hat, I realize all too well that a clear distinction
must be maintained between Baron Corun and Craig Greenbaum, Society member.
I have been asked to step in as a person of authority and have had to make
sure that distinction was just as clear to those with whom I was dealing as
it was to me. If I were at an event in Steirbach, the Seneschal would be the
person with the highest authority (barring the Royals of course) and it is
to that person to whom I would go for a resolution to a problem, and that
person had better be just as clear of the distinction between their SCA
persona and their job.

>Is the assassination game inappropriate?  Well, it is designed to recreate
>an aspect of Medieval life (the constant nervousness of the upper classes,
>especially Italian ones) in a manner which is both safe and meant to be 
>fun for the participants.  

But it has been pointed out time and again in this thread that it does not
recreate an aspect of Medaeval life in that there are no citations
supporting the existence of assasination guilds at any time in the periods
we attempt to recreate. What "constant nervousness" of the upper classes?
Are you telling us that throughout the 900 or so years of history that we
encompass in the SCA the upper classes were in constant fear of being
assasinated? Or are you simply providing a straw man in the guise of an
overgeneralization? I think the latter. If you're going to present a de
Medici style assasination as His Excellency suggested, then you are talking
about a theme for a single event based aroung a single occurrence in
history. Do not suggest that this single occurrence is an example for the
entire 900 years making such a statement as that above.

>We could 
>certainly show a little more care for the fun of the spectators in a number
>of our activities, doesn't Your Excellency agree?

We could indeed, however the implication of this statement is that we should
allow almost anything to occur at an event that people find fun. Let's get
really extreme then and have mud wrestling belly dancers. Certainly there
was belly dancing in history, and I'm sure that more than one fight broke
out on a rainy day, causing the participants to wrestle in the mud. And
let's not stop there, but let's ask the other people attending the event to
participate in it. I'm sure someone in a nice Elizabethan outfit would just
love to get a hug from a mudsplattered belly dancer.

>> > As long as we reward the activities which enhance our game, we can suffer 
>> > the ones which divert it a little.  It is only when we fail to reward 
>> > positive activities that negative ones, such as UBAG's assassination 
>> > game, become debilitating to the Kingdom.
>> 
>> I disagree. 
>
>You do?  Ah, I'm crushed ;-).  

Leifr, I sincerely hope that the smiley up there means you're being
facetious. Quite frankly, it's difficult to tell with you sometimes.

>I was sure any rightminded individual 
>would accept that in a totally volunteer organization, the only way to 
>lead people is through our award system.  Exempliers, Your Excellency, of 
>the conduct we seek to recreate, are the best counter to Vampires and Elves.

An award system can be used to do good or cause harm. It all depends on how
you use it. But in either case, it was not meant as a method of leading. One
leads by example, or fails to lead, also by example. Example, however, will
not suffice to send the vampires and elves scurrying back into the folk
tales where they belong, nor will it keep unhistorical assassins guilds at
bay. What will is a concerted effort at education of these people into what
an orgaization that is attempting to recreate actual aspects of the Middle
Ages is all about. And fantasy and D&D games are not what it is all about,
Laurelin Darkbane notwithstanding (I understand that he has been playing
down the elvish persona aspect for a number of years now in favour of actual
historical research). As for Sir Ix (I don't know him at all), if he's
wearing documentable Aztec armour, then at least he's attempting to recreate
an actual aspect of the Middle Ages. Granted, the Aztecs didn't really have
any direct contact with Europe, especially as fighters (I consider the
Spanish and Portuguese encouters on Aztec turf to be indirect contact with
Europe), so they didn't have the kind of impact on European society and
culture as, say, the Mongols did, and even less than the Japanese. But at
least the Aztecs existed in ourt period, they were met with and fought
against and their culture can be documented. Not so vampires, elves or
assassins guild.

>		How can Your Excellency claim any 
>		viewpoint fairly defines "The Game"?

Alright, let's take this supposition. I want to come to an SCA event as a
Balrog. I want to carry a flail and a flame thrower and scare the bejeezus
out of anyone I suspect of not being an Orc, which just about includes
everyone else at the event. That to me is what the SCA is all about and how
it should be played. Now, does that viewpoint fairly define "the Game"? No?
Pretty silly idea, isn't it. And I'm sure you'd be up there with the rest of
the folks to tell me that this viewpoint does not define "the Game" by
giving me contrary viewpoints, and in so doing, I would be able to use your
straw man argument above. One must have some definitions, some boundaries
that mark out the territory in which we wish to play "the Game". If we don't
have these definitions and boundaries, we open ourselves up to allowing
anything at all, and then we might just as well become a Sci Fi and Fantasy
club. And at that point we're going to lose our tax exempt status as an
educational organization because we're no longer educating people on the
Middle Ages. We're educating them on what the Middle Ages wasn't. We're
perpetuating a myth, and films like Braveheart are bad enough at doing that
(not a bad film as films go, but it *was* written by a Wallace, and the
historical accuracy in places leaves somewhat to be desired).

Anyway, this has gone on longer than I intended, and I was really trying to
stay out of this discussion, however.... Suffice to say that there are some
things that belong in the SCA and some things that don't and there have to
be some definitions.

In service,
Corun

P.S. Has anyone else noticed that the original posters of the UBAG message
haven't shown up here since we started this, and that they posted those same
messages on the Rialto and were totally ignored publicly?

===============================================================================
   Corun MacAnndra   |  You just gotta learn to dance while life is throwing
 Dark Horde by birth |  chainsaws and chickens at you...after the first few
   Moritu by choice  |  cuts and pecks, it's easy.   ---   jms

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