Re: U.B.A.G (Long!)

[Wynn Klosky <klosky@meeker.UCAR.EDU>]

Poster: Wynn Klosky <klosky@meeker.UCAR.EDU>



On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Lance Harrop wrote:
<snip>
> I am glad to hear that, Your Excellency.  Now could you please explain where
> Mr. David Kuijt derives the authority to tell other members of the SCA 
> what they may and may not do at an event?

Ummmm....same place you and I do?
The countless hours we spend devoted to research of authentic reproduction,
fruits of which labour are shared with anyone who wants them at no
cost at all? Believe me, it is *NOT* Dafydd ap Gwystl who spends so
many hours crouched over a table in the basement constructing something
that will make us all go Wow; and it is not Dafydd ap Gwystl who suffers
the backaches or eyestrain or stained hands -- it is the person behind
the persona, same as it is for you or me. And I think you and I have every
right to speak to people about what is or is not appropriate, especially
if we can maintain the precise, logical research technique and very 
polite manners exhibited by Mr. D. Kuijt. 

Or were you referring more to the $X sent to Milpitas? ;^)

> I am perfectly happy to believe that Your Excellency would not want to 
> outlaw anybody, but only their activities, whether it would be speech on 
> the Merry Rose or games at events.

Please, Leifr. No one is allowed to stone anyone until I blow this
whistle. :^) His Excellency did not say Jehovah, errrr, OUTLAW. He
expressed his opinion that the post was appropriate. Hardly the action
of a petty dictator.

> Are the UBAG posts inappropriate?  Assassinations did occur in period.  
> Recreating them, therefore, is argueably an activity members of the SCA
> might want to undertake.  Therefore I hardly think it is inappropriate for
> UBAG to raise the issue in the Merry Rose (though it does make me wonder 
> about the taste of my mead?? ;-> >.

You know, Leifr, on the two occasions I have met you, I was totally
struck by your level of devotion to authenticity in speech, clothing,
armour, and manners...it is perhaps taking in these things that obscured my
vision of the chip that seems to be on your shoulder. :^) It is not necessary
for one to play the devil's advocate ALL the time, or some folks
may begin to believe that one has no standards (or that one will
root for the underdog, no matter what said UD represents).

Nevertheless, I found the UBAG posts inappropriate at several levels.
First of all, you seem to be ASSUMING (we all did) that this is
some sort of game, but as I recall, the original post went something
like, "Want someone offed? Let us do it for you." To someone whose
family has been darkened by the stain of deadly assault, this is
not at all funny. It is tasteless, and therefore inappropriate.
(Have your family's favourite restaurant in Philadelphia end up
being the one where Nicky Scarfo took a hit, fortunately on a
night you aren't there but even so, and you will find this thing
even more tasteless due to the reality of CURRENT trafficking...)

Second, if we are to take the post at face value, it is free advertising
for a service, which is generally inappropriate according to Netiquette.
Also, if I really did want to hire an assassin, I would do it
sneakily and not to some group hare-brained enough to advertise...

Finally, I will not go over all of the arguments re: the non-existance
of such *advertising* of assassin groups *in period,* but there you are.

> Is the assassination game inappropriate?  Well, it is designed to recreate
> an aspect of Medieval life (the constant nervousness of the upper classes,
> especially Italian ones) in a manner which is both safe and meant to be 
> fun for the participants.  Is it fun for the spectators?  I don't find it so,

Oh, joy! Does this mean that I can finally realize my dream of combining
two of my favourite outdoors activities: SCA and paintball? (Sorry, but
this just reminds me too much of a particular beer ad that combined
dissimilar things like beauty pageants and pro-wrestling, or cooking
shows and football...) [This is a JOKE, folks. I do SCA during SCA
time and paintball for paintball -- they are two different activities
that satisfy two VERY different needs of my soul, and never the
twain shall meet.]

But actually, I would be interested to hear any research proof that
pointed to Assassins Guilds in Italy that went around wearing armbands
and sticking stickers to people's goblets, causing the upper classes to
live in continual fear of their lives. :^) I vaguely remember a
reference to an Assassin as being a member of a super-secret Muslim
order that went about doing away with Crusaders, among others, but
I really cannot recall the reference, and it really did NOT have 
to do with a public Italian guild that advertised like the fishmonger.

I *do* remember, though, that the word assassin comes from an
Arabic word meaning "hashish user," but that would be TOTALLY
inappropriate for us to be recreating at events.

> would accept that in a totally volunteer organization, the only way to 
> lead people is through our award system.  Exempliers, Your Excellency, of 
> the conduct we seek to recreate, are the best counter to Vampires and Elves.

Which is why I am CERTAIN that you agree with His Excellency's 
suggestion to the UBAG individuals to research and recreate a totally
medieval assassination in a totally period scenario. I stand by 
ready to sing "Quis dabit capiti meo aquam?" or perhaps even
"Ad mortem festinamus" for grins...

> So, if I might ask, who are the "WE" in this statement?  The Society has 
> over 20,000 paid members, plus thousands more participants.  There is a 
> Duke of the Midrealm who takes his name from Tolkein's elves (Duke 
> Lorillein Darkbane (sp)).  There is a knight who wears Aztec armour (Sir Ix).

Every instance has an exception. It does not mean that it is in the
majority, nor that it should be something we emulate. There have
been cases where Boy Scout leaders have horribly abused the trust of the
very boys they are there to lead, but that does not mean that their
example should be followed, nor that the overall society of Boy Scouts
is just like that.

And just because hashish use at events would be totally inappropriate,
as I stated earlier, does not mean that some Joe or Jane Schmoe didn't get
away with doing it in their tent or out in the woods or something.

> 		How can Your Excellency claim any 
> 		viewpoint fairly defines "The Game"?

Ummmm...because it is set down in Corpora/Bylaws/GP&D? Perhaps? Pre-
17th century? Behaving like ladies and gentlemen? Ring a bell?

> I had this argument with Baron Hossein (mka Greg Rose) nearly a year 
> ago, and I tried to take Your Excellency's position.  I argued that the 

Urrrrr...His Excellency's position, or your interpretation of what
you believe it should be? Please enlighten me.

> And I still think Landmarks would be a good idea, but they don't exist, 
> and the Society is pretty much whatever it has grown to be.

But that does not mean that we should all just sit here sucking our
toes while elves and vampires run rampant, accepting it or crying
out to the deaf fates. We should put it to the elves and vampires
that there are period alternatives for what they want to do:
plays, masques, mummings...We (the we who want the society to be
an actual educational organization where we can have fun while
recreating period-ness) are the only ones who can bring things
including things like what you wish for (the Landmarks) into being,
and I think we have every right to pursue that.

Hossein is right in that we are stuck with an awful lot of stuff
that is not period, for right now. But just as companies that
bring in new technology or methods are stuck with a lot of untrained
staff, it is possible for us to work together and educate to get
a desirable product.

> Anyway, for a study project, someone in UBAG, or James of Westmoreland,
> can answer these questions:

This is the best suggestion I have heard from you yet, Leifr. Very
appropriate -- research into what is period activity.

> And I think you should ask the autocrat IF you can play your games at the 
> event.

And me, too. And anyone else who might be bothered by UBAG's game. 
In the immortal words of that spirited bard, Baron Otto the Obscure, 
"Announcing you are going to fart does not make it smell any better."

I think once you get an accurate portrayal of a period assassination
going, it would smell a lot pleasanter to a lot of people. (That
would be assassinations, not farts. Reenactments of period farts
still smell.)

Standing by ready to sing the song composed upon LdeM's death,
I remain,
branwynn ottersby
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