Re: U.B.A.G (Still Long!)

[Lance Harrop <lharrop@mrj.com>]

Poster: Lance Harrop <lharrop@mrj.com>


Fair Branwynn writes, in part:

> > Now could you please explain where
> > Mr. David Kuijt derives the authority to tell other members of the SCA 
> > what they may and may not do at an event?
> 
> Ummmm....same place you and I do?
<snip>
< and she cites hours of research and the willingness to teach others about
< what David has learned.

Why then, I suppose Earl Dafydd would be (and is for me if not for our gentle
readers) an EXAMPLE of how we like people to behave in the Society.  And for
this he has been rewarded a knighthood, a laurel, and a pelican (I consider
the Royal peerage something he earned himself, but will accept arguments
counter to this).  So, when I want to point out an Example of how you succeed
at this Game, I can use His Excellency.
> 
> You know, Leifr, on the two occasions I have met you, I was totally
> struck by your level of devotion to authenticity in speech, clothing,
> armour, and manners...it is perhaps taking in these things that obscured my
> vision of the chip that seems to be on your shoulder. :^)

Chip?  My shoulder?  ;-)  You forget that I just LOVE arguing with Earl 
Dafydd because we always end up splitting hairs. ;-)

> It is not necessary
> for one to play the devil's advocate ALL the time, or some folks
> may begin to believe that one has no standards (or that one will
> root for the underdog, no matter what said UD represents).

Baroness, by the Code of Chivalry, as expressed so well recently by Sir 
Xenaphon, it is my duty to defend the underdog, if his cause is just.
As the only thing I have defended is UBAG's freedom of speech to promote 
their activities at SCA events, I hardly think I am being unjust.
 > 
> Nevertheless, I found the UBAG posts inappropriate at several levels.

You are right, I did not assume that UBAG was real, nor did it raise for
me memories of personal loss.  I thought it was a very silly method to 
interject a very silly game into the SCA (one that has existed there
before, as others have noted).

I am sincerely sorry that this whole thing has caused you grief.

> > Exempliers, Your Excellency, of 
> > the conduct we seek to recreate, are the best counter to Vampires and Elves.
> 
> Which is why I am CERTAIN that you agree with His Excellency's 
> suggestion to the UBAG individuals to research and recreate a totally
> medieval assassination in a totally period scenario.

I didn't make that argument?  I think I asked UBAG to obtain the 
autocrat's permission to run the game, and I think I encouraged them to 
research it.  
> 
> Every instance has an exception. It does not mean that it is in the
> majority, nor that it should be something we emulate. 

The majority of members don't fight Rattan.  We do.  That obviously can't
be the measure you seek.  How many Scadians have to have Japanese persona's
before they become acceptable in the Society?  That definitely is a question
on the margins.  Is Sir Ix outside those margins?
> 
> > 		How can Your Excellency claim any 
> > 		viewpoint fairly defines "The Game"?
> 
> Ummmm...because it is set down in Corpora/Bylaws/GP&D? Perhaps? Pre-
> 17th century? Behaving like ladies and gentlemen? Ring a bell?

Are you suggesting that no lord or lady ever assassinated anyone? ;-) ;-) ;-)

All the rules you cite are still far too vague to make the case that 
assassins are not appropriate to the Game.
> 
> > I had this argument with Baron Hossein (mka Greg Rose) nearly a year 
> > ago, and I tried to take Your Excellency's position.  I argued that the 
> 
> Urrrrr...His Excellency's position, or your interpretation of what
> you believe it should be? Please enlighten me.

I argued that Elves were NOT appropriate to the SCA (and I still believe 
that), Earl Dafydd argued that Elves are NOT appropriate to the SCA (and
doubtless will hold that position right until he reads this ;-) (BIG 
SMILEY), Baron Hossein argued that because Elves participated since the dawn
of the SCA, they are PART of the SCA, and it surely isn't MY (Leifr's, 
that is) place to suggest changing rules to effectively outlaw them.
 > 
> > And I still think Landmarks would be a good idea, but they don't exist, 
> > and the Society is pretty much whatever it has grown to be.
> 
> But that does not mean that we should all just sit here sucking our
> toes while elves and vampires run rampant, accepting it or crying
> out to the deaf fates. We should put it to the elves and vampires
> that there are period alternatives for what they want to do:
> plays, masques, mummings...We (the we who want the society to be
> an actual educational organization where we can have fun while
> recreating period-ness) are the only ones who can bring things
> including things like what you wish for (the Landmarks) into being,
> and I think we have every right to pursue that.

Hey, I don't disagree with you.  I'm all for educating people.  I'm all 
for making the Society a better place.  I think it would just be nice to
avoid a certain harshness in our tone when we discover something we don't
like.

> Hossein is right in that we are stuck with an awful lot of stuff
> that is not period, for right now.

I don't think you've quite grasped Baron Hossein's position.  But I'm not
going to try to explain it, 'cause he wouldn't want me to.
> 
> > Anyway, for a study project, someone in UBAG, or James of Westmoreland,
> > can answer these questions:
> 
> This is the best suggestion I have heard from you yet, Leifr. Very
> appropriate -- research into what is period activity.

And so it seems that Ciaran is doing that, to read his post to Lady Karen 
the Very Dane-gerous.
> 
> > And I think you should ask the autocrat IF you can play your games at the 
> > event.
> 
> And me, too. And anyone else who might be bothered by UBAG's game. 

I'll accept Duke Richard's position.  Talk to the autocrat, publish it in the
event flyer.  Those who do not want to be around it, can avoid it if they 
please.  I think it would be a little hard for them to ask every 
potential participate at an event if they can run their little game.

In Service
Leifr Johansson

P.S., Gicamo and Dragonfyr, those have to be the most unsubstantive 
insults I have ever read.

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