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Re: June Kingdom Returns (heraldry) (fwd)

Poster: Dick Eney <dickeney@access.digex.net>

On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Craig Levin wrote:
> Poster: clevin@ripco.com (Craig Levin)
> > Poster: teufel <teufel@erols.com>
> >         I beg for help from the good people of the Merry Rose.  I would like
> > to thank the Lady Rhiannon Ui Neill for going out of her way to post the
> > Heraldic lists.  It has helped my knowledge of heraldry considerably, and I
> > have found the discussions edifying.
> >         But.
> >         Could some of the Heralds (amateur or pro) explain to me how there
> > is a conflict between the following charges?  
> > 
> > >Poster: Beverly Robinson-Curry <corvus2@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
> > >
> > >Mathaeus Blades - device
> > >Azure, on a plate a lion rampany contourny purpure.
> > >This is being returned for conflict with Azure, a plate charged with a
> > >cauldron and a domestic cat in its curiosity sable.  Rhithyn yr Gwlad yr
> > >Hav, SCA. There is a CD for the changes to the charges on the roundel but no
> > >others.
> > >
> >         HUH?  By my calculations, there is more than two points of
> > difference between the two devices.  Are my calculations wrong here?  And,
> > as a fighter, it passes my primary test, being able to tell the difference
> > between the two shields from across the battlefield.  
> >         I was just gearing up to submit a new badge, and this has thrown a
> > monkey wrench into my confidence of it passing.
> The reason's pretty simple. Depending on the size of the roundel
> (in this case, a roundel argent=white dot) the stuff on the
> roundel can range from clearly distinguishable to all-but-frou-
> frou. Since the purpose of heraldry is to identify individuals,
> the fact that the stuff on the roundel can be tiny means that it
> ranks pretty low on the scale of things one can do to make one
> coat of arms different from another coat of arms.

Also, from my distant memory of having been a pursuivant, "A difference of
major charge is sufficient difference" - but this is the _same_ major
charge: azure a plate.  What is _on_ the plate is only a minor point of
difference, and not enough to counteract the use of the same major charge. 

=Tamar the Gypsy (sharing account dickeney@access.digex.net)

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