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Re: Pennsic Letter

Poster: "H L. Falls" <hlf@holmes.acc.virginia.edu>

Continuing my discussion with Lord Kevin:


> > > Let's clarify that:  "The point of Pennsic is to have a really good time
> > > with a really big group of people in the Society for Creative
> > > Anachronism."
> > >
> > > Would you agree that is still correct?
> > 
> >    Actually, no.  While hosted by/under the auspices of the SCA, Pennsic
> > has a *loooonnnggg* tradition of being open to other, loosely related
> > groups (Tuchux, Marklanders, and others), and indeed dates back to a time
> > when the SCA itself was a whole lot more relaxed and laid back.  I
> > personally (and yes, this is just my unsupported opinion) think that it's
> > way too late to try to put this particular genie back in the bottle...
> Tradition, maybe.  I don't know much there.  However, the SCA is
> sponsoring it, and covering the insurance so we don't destroy the
> Cooper's nice campground.  You can't turn an Eric Clapton concert into
> something else just because you go and you don't like the music.  Sure,
> you don't have to listen, but it's still a Clapton concert.
   Well, I've never been to a Clapton concert, but I would *hope* that
they wouldn't throw you out for wearing a Jimmy Buffett t-shirt, or
anything else that wasn't illegal and didn't interfer with others' 
ability to enjoy the concert.  And, elderly geezer that I am, I tend
to a fairly liberal interpretation of "doesn't interfer", particularly
for such a huge and complex event as Pennsic...
> > > > Are you really going to tell someone who paid $80 plus whatever they
> > > > invested into camping supplies that they have to leave the game because you
> > > > don't like how they look/act/etc.?
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, yes.  $80 doesn't buy them any rights.
> > >
> > >
> > > If I want to drive my car at stupid-fast speeds, I should sign up on the
> > > drag list at Old Dominion Speedway.
> > 
> >    Personally, I think your analogy would be a bit closer to the mark
> > if you were being arrested/banned from the road because somebody didn't
> > like your paint job...
> Uh-uh.  Kilmeny mentioned "don't like how they look/ACT/etc."  My
> analogy was addressing the action part, just like speeding on the road. 
> I guess my post was covering all points of the seneschals' review all at
> once.  Sorry 'bout that.
   Then again, Kilmeny did distinguish between "crimes against laws or
people" and "crimes of fashion or taste".  I don't think anybody is 
arguing to ignore the former, which is what I see stupid-fast speeding
as being analogous to.  It's sitting under beach umbrellas and wearing
aloha-print t-tunics that, while tacky and distracting, aren't deserving
of "courts" and "reviews by the kingdom senechal", in my (our???) opinion.
> > [more snippage...]
> > 
> > > "I want you to
> > > stay and have fun with us, but I want you to wear something different to
> > > play with us."
> > 
> >    Actually, I quite agree.  And I think "courts" and such are the wrong way
> > to approach this goal.
> Well yeah, but they've said they don't intend the
> courts/review/inquisition to include garb infractions.  They've just
> given people an official avenue to say, "Garb is more appropriate than
> blue jeans here."
   Yeah, I think a big part of the whole uproar got kicked off by
the fact that they discribe the operation of the Senechal's Court, 
then go immediately to a half-page discussion of dress code before
discussing the things that the court is really meant to cover.  So 
we end up arguing *past* each other...
> > > Perio.. per.. periodi... how do you pronounce that?  ;)
> > 
> >    How about perioidity???  :-)
> Perioddity?  :)  A good Landsknecht is full of perioddity!  :)
   [-: SNERT!!! :-]
> >    You know that, Kilmeny knows that, I know that...  Problem is when
> > some people think that "fun" means beating up on other people for not
> > conforming to their notions of "Period"...
> That'll happen no matter the rule or the event.  There's jerks
> everywhere.  Someone posted something about autocrat's staff yelling at
> someone buying garb?  Sad, but there you have it.
   Yeah, but here (despite disclaimers to the contrary) they give the
impression that they're giving said jerks official recognition.  Hence 
the concern...
> > > Pennsic is not a public venue, it's a private party.
> > 
> >    Ummm, well... no, not really.  If they were holding a *private* party
> > their own back yard, yeah...  Carrying your logic to its absurd conclusion,
> > they could declare Pennsic "Elizabethian only" if they wanted...
> Same difference.  Whether it's their own back yard, or they rent someone
> else's.  And yes, if they posted rules in advance and made it
> Elizabethan only, they could do it.  There's a yearly private
> Elizabethan party held somewhere.  People in my household go, I don't. 
> I don't do Elizabethan, so I'm not invited.  :)
> FWIW, it's not an SCA event, but the same premise holds.  I wouldn't go
> to this party wearing a Norman tunic.
   No, as you note it's *not* an SCA event.  If it were, they would
*have* to let in anyone wearing "an attempt at pre-seventeenth century
clothing", including your Norman tunic.  They could *ask* people to 
abide by the theme of the event (and I have, out of courtesy, skipped
events where my "generic viking" would have jarred), but as long as
it's an official SCA event, covered by SCA insurance, etc., they 
couldn't *demand* and enforce it.  Which is, I believe, a major reason 
that it's *not* held under SCA auspices.
> > > Well, they've obviously modified the terminology on this one.  A
> > > "seneschals' review" sounds more appropriate, and better communicates
> > > what I think their purpose is to be.
> > 
> >    I dunno, a rose by any other name...
> Careful, they're using that new V-chip to watch you now....
> If it'd been called a review first before a court, I think it'd be a big
> difference to you.
   Quite likely.  *How* something is said is often as important as *what* 
is said...  Still, I've seen authority abused often enough that even that
makes me a trifle nervous.
> > > If all this can be done with minimal offense to the offenders, increase
> > > peace, love and happy chocolate - and maintain attendance, fantastic.
> > 
> >    *HEY!!!*  Chocolate's not period!!!!  [G,D,RLH!!!]
> As a drink it is.  "Happy" doesn't have to mean "solid".  :)
   Now aren't you glad I'm not an *official* authenticop???  :)
> _____
> |+^+|  Kevin of Thornbury
> |/+\|  (Kevin Maxson)
>  \_/   kevin@maxson.com   http://www.atlantia.sca.org

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