Re: Acknowledgement

[Logan and/or Arielle <sirlogan@mail.clt.bellsouth.net>]

Poster: Logan and/or Arielle <sirlogan@mail.clt.bellsouth.net>

I have to take this one statement by statement.  I do this publicly
because that is how I was brought into it.

Susan and Frank Downs wrote:

> Your Grace,
>
> What on earth do you mean by "lowering the standard?"  When have I
> said anything about "lowering the standard?"

Lowering the standard very simply means lowering the level of force that
is required for a blow to be counted as "telling".  You complained that
the blow level was too high with your claim of the "injurious
consequences" of throwing a hard blow.

> What I'm saying is that victory on the list should be a matter of
> skill at arms rather than "threshhold of pain."

It is a matter of skill at arms and has never been one of a threshold of
pain.  Those fights that are not won by skill are usually referred to as
"bop till ya drop" fights and I would not participate in one because of
their shear stupidity.  I have never suggested that victory be based on
anything but skill at arms.  Skill at arms does not imply that we can go
to tapping one another and calling it good either.  It has to do with
technique, athleticism, innovation, speed, quickness, etc.  This is,
after all,  a contact sport.

> Because you think of fighting as a sport, you seem to make no
> distinction between boffer weapons and heavy fighting.  Everyone gets
> a chance to play, if only for the J.V.  That's absurd on the face of
> it.  People don't make steel plate armor to fight with boffer weapons,
> and when's the next boffer crown or Emerald Joust?  Who's the latest
> boffer knight?  We don't confer anything like the prestige of heavy
> weapons on boffer weapons.

You are ignoring the fact that I only offered boffer as an alternative
to heavy fighting for those that do not wish to get hurt (or have a low
threshold for pain, a statement that you really need to examine more
closely).  What I said specifically was that if a person wishes to
participate in combat, AND, has a low threshold for pain, OR, simply
does not wish to ever get hurt, THEN, they should look into boffer (i.e.
make a "pain free" weapon).  Apparently you are one, judging by what you
seem to feel is important, that fights for glory, prestige, or accolades
such as the Throne, Knighthood, or the tourney prize.  I can only assume
this because of the criteria that you have established for comparing the
two types of combat.

> Your pretending that we do, along with your vague cries of "lowering
> the standard," and telling people that if they can't match your
> "threshhold for pain" or "don't want to get hurt" they should get out
> are what I'm condemning as elitist.

I do not pretend anything and never once eluded to boffer weapons and
heavy weapons being in the same class for anything except the ability to
participate in combat.  This comparison was one created in your mind.
Again, this is a violent contact sport by it's design (last time I
checked we were trying to hit people with sticks).  It certainly is not
a maliciously violent sport, but violent nonetheless.  And, I stand
firmly behind my statements of "if you don't want to get hurt" or you
have "a low threshold for pain" (my actual words not your rendition of
them, which is absurd) then you shouldn't participate in heavy fighting.
Getting hit by a stick hurts, sometimes a lot. It hurts in Atlantia, it
hurts in Trimaris, it hurts in Meridies, it hurts in the East, etc. I
know, I've fought in many different kingdoms and it hurt to get hit by a
stick in all of them.

> It's also what I was referring to as "might makes right."  What I
> would like to get through to you is that I know the risks I take when
> I fight, but I don't want people like you making me have to risk
> injuring someone else in order to fight successfully.

You contradict yourself by stating that you "know the risks" but don't
want "people like you making me risk injuring someone else".  Do not
forget that the risk of injury is inherent and that we do sign waivers
stating our willingness to take that risk.  I happen to be quite
successful on the field.  I do so without causing this great carnage
that you claim I do.  Besides, by your own admission, you have never
fought me and barely even know me so how would you know?

> You're wrecking my game by turning it into a savage bloodsport.

Telling an ex boxer that SCA fighting is a savage bloodsport is not
going to get you very far.  How savage is it?  How many serious injuries
have YOU sustained?  Have you seen my list of injuries?  This is the
price most successful fighters have paid.  I would be willing to bet
that there is not a single ex Monarch in this kingdom that has not
suffered a broken bone as a result of SCA fighting and probably very few
Knights.  How many of your bones have you broken in this "savage
bloodsport"?  I wonder.

> That's the problem I see in fighting.  If this is simply my point of
> view, then you can just write me off as a crackpot, but I'm pretty
> sure that's not the case, so I think it's a real problem.

You are "pretty sure" so you "think".  Again that is not a very strong
argument.  In fact, you are the only person I have ever heard say that
our game is such a violent destroyer of humanity.  If you feel that
there needs to be a drastic change in the rules and standards (of which
I did not create but you blame me for) then by all means please offer a
solution.  If it makes sense then the masses that agree with you will
rally behind it and the rules will be changed.  Until then, I will
continue to compete, fight hard, have fun and follow the rules.

>
> Of course people have a right to fight, they just have to authorize,
> which, in the past, just about anyone could do, with enough
> determination.

They have a right to fight "IF"?  Do you also have a right to drive a
car?  The answer to both is no.  Determination alone will not get
someone authorized.  If that is happening then we have another problem.
A person must meet certain standards in order to get an authorization
card.  Such as; being a paid member, having some knowledge of the rules,
being able to defend themselves, being able to throw a telling blow,
etc.  Just as a person must take a test to get a driver's license.  In
this state if you have any failing grades, they won't let you take the
test to try to get that license.

> You talk about throwing a "telling blow," but the point you seem to be
> missing, or willfully overlooking is that your "telling blow" may well
> be, and probably is, different from my "telling blow."

Never missed the point.  I have known of the differences for many
years.  And, there really is not that much of a difference between your
"telling blow" and mine.  I am willing to bet that they both fall into
that range of what is, better than light and higher. That is the range
of a telling blow. But, again, you have never fought me so you wouldn't
know.

> Furthermore, I am willing to bet that both of them vary,
> unintentionally of course, depending on circumstances.  In the heat of
> a melee it probably takes more to get either of our attention than in
> a leisurely bout with a new fighter.  I'm not saying that either of us
> is "cheating," simply that we're in different mindsets which alter our
> perceptions.

I would be willing to bet that, for myself, you are wrong.  In fact I am
easier to kill in melee than in a single bout.  Just ask anyone who has
ever been in a group chasing me when I have tripped up, fallen, and
called myself dead.  I have had to argue with both pursuers and marshals
alike when they have told me to get up and go ahead and fight.  But,
again, you have never fought me so you wouldn't know.

>
>
> The sad fact is that you, and people like you, do set the standards.

I bet that there are those that would take exception to your insult of
me.  To YOU that is a sad fact.  A sad fact behind a weak and unfounded
argument.


The simple fact that I was trying very hard to get across was that there
really is not that much of a difference between Atlantian fighters and
those from other kingdoms.  I offered that when all Atlantian fighters
were labeled as "rhinos".

The second point was to counter an argument that we need to drastically
lower our acknowledgment levels (the standard) in order for those that
do not fight because they don't want to get hurt (I read pain) to have
the opportunity to fight.  If that is what they wish to do, I offer
boffer weapons as an alternative.  I also stated that I would not
support the lowering of, what I believe, an acceptable standard.  I have
met fighters on the field that have actually said "I take a very light
shot".  I applaud them as long as they understand that they still need
to deliver a telling blow.

Frank, you need to understand that I fight for fun.  I do not care how
we structure the fighting as long as we stay within a standard. I
believe that I am well inside that standard.  I charge you to seek me
out at an event and fight with me.  I do not believe that I know who you
are or would recognize you.  Do this and then report back as to how
brutal I was and how injurious I have made the sport of SCA combat.  If
you still feel the same way that you do now, after we fight, then
perhaps we should talk about what can be done to close this apparently
wide gap.


Duke Logan

_____________________________________________________________
Vis,  Fortitudo, Prudentia
_____________________________________________________________
"For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf
is the Pack."
-Rudyard Kipling


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