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Re: The Principalities Debate, was: The Evil P-word

          I would like to proffer my personal opinions about why I am
          highly suspicious of the Pro-Principality movement and why I
          am currently opposed to any Principalities forming anywhere
          in Atlantia.

          First, of all I am opposed to bureaucracy.  I dislike rules
          for rules sake.  I think that organizations should run with
          the minimum of rules and bureaucracy so that people can get
          down to the business at hand.  I do not define the business
          at hand as being an officer in an organization whether a
          great officer, a principality officer, a local officer or a
          figure head officer (barons, kings, princes).

          I feel that the goals of the SCA in Atlantia should be:
          1)  To promote an enjoyable medieval-like atmosphere for

          2)  To promote the study of medieval pursuits.

          3)  To throw events with tourneys, feasts, crafts and

          4)   To recognize achievement in the areas of service,
          fighting and the arts/sciences.

          In the interests of being fair, I assume that one of the
          Pro-Principality movements motives is number 1.  However, I
          think that a principality will interfere with 3, reduce
          exchange of information about 2 and actually make 4 more
          difficult, and ultimately fail to achieve goal 1.  [I
          concede that the reason many join is for the purpose of
          having fun (i.e., hobbies are leisure activities pursued for

          I feel that what originally sparked the Pro-P movement, the
          straw that broke the camel's back, etc. was Duke Anton's and
          Duchess Luned's insistence that Earl Laighre, Sir Bryan and
          Sir Grethferth's (excuse my bad spelling - just color me
          medieval) swear fealty or suffer banishment.  In addition,
          these same people were up in arms over Muirgen's signing the
          royalty pact at the event in Arizona without personally
          consulting them (although she, Kane, Anton and Luned did
          speak with over 300 Atlantian citizens in the two weeks
          before the event).  This is why I am suspicious of the Pro-P
          movement.  I think a personal dislike of Anton and his
          cohorts is what is pushing this movement along.

          However, a principality will not rid northern Atlantians of
          these folks.  They will still be Kings and Great Officers.
          They will still be Peers affecting their orders.  In
          addition, the North is not full of saints.  There are
          others living in the North who are willing to ride rough
          shod over others in order to see that what they consider to
          be right and proper is done.  A principality does not
          guarantee fun.

          I think what it does guarantee is the following:

          1)  More courts.  Court is boring.  Pomp and circumstance
          exists in court sometimes.  However, court is also a time
          when people having a good time are shushed so that they can
          watch other people who may or may not be having fun and who
          may or may not be hearable.

          2)  More royalty.  Great.  More opportunities for people to
          think that they have discovered a little power and run rough
          shod over others.  More autocrat time and event time being
          planned around these people.

          3)  More offices to be filled.  Atlantia has some difficulty
          filling the offices it has now.  Many of the baronies and
          shires have difficulty filling the offices that they have.
          More offices.  More bureaucracy.  More reports.  More paper.
          More chances for people to fill artificially important.

          4)  Hard feelings.  People will resent these officers,
          royalty and principality folks.  Those not in a principality
          will feel excluded.  Those who fought against a principality
          will feel disaffected.

          5)  More reserved dates on the calendar.  There will be less
          opportunities for individual group events.  On top of the 1
          date a month going to Kingdom level events.  There will be
          at least 4 more dates tied up in Coronet tourneys and
          Coronet coronations.  Just what the North needs -- less
          dates on the calendar available.  (I don't think so.)

          6)  Coronet Tourneys.  Another opportunity for people to
          complain about fighters individual honor, chivalry,
          rhinohideness and sportsmanship.

          7)  Less Travel.  Denise comments that the four to five hour
          drive to North Carolina is too much already.  She welcomes
          the idea of a principality because it would cut down on her
          feeling obliged to go to any of these distant events.
          Although officially principalities do not lessen our
          invitations to those events outside the principality, they
          do lessen our enthusiasm for doing so.

          8) More difficulty in getting peers.  The King and Queen
          will still be giving awards.  The peers will still be all
          the peers of Atlantia, not just the peers of the
          Principality(ies).  Peers will be (and are) reluctant to
          respond to pollings for people that they have never met.  In
          a place where people travel less, people will meet less

          Other potential problems are the following:

          1)  As the principality borders become more of a barrier to
          travel, they will also become more of a barrier to
          communication.  This may reduce the sharing of knowledge and
          research as it relates to medieval studies.

          2) Old Castles will be Princes of a new northern
          Principality into the next millennium  (I have polled many
          of them and found them willing to fight in a coronet tourney
          if a Principality did come into existence).

          These are many if not all of the reasons I am leery of a

          Please note:  I am friends with Anton.  I am an Old Castle.
          I respect Laeghr and Isabeau and understand their misgivings
          about Chequey Power.


          Lady Thalia Paleogina