Re[2]: Peerages (was Earl D)

["Morris, Beth" <bmorris@nacac.nacac.com>]

Mistress Keilyn delurks (again) to write:
     
     [As regards non-peers taking students]
     
>But I have certainly heard of non-peers being bashed for taking students, 
>even if you haven't.

Ah, but when I posted, you hadn't clarified "acting like a peer" to "taking 
students".  

It has been the prerogative of peers to formally recognize their students, and 
it has been the custom in many lands (not only Atlantia) to use the terms 
'apprentice', 'protege' and 'squire' to refer to those special students of 
members of the peerage orders.  

I guess I don't know that many people that care that much about what someone is 
called.  I have had friends (non-peers) who took students and called them 
students (or in the case of fighters, men-at-arms).
What I have seen 'bashed' is the taking of students by those who were not yet 
well-versed in their own art, many of whom took students as status symbols.

[As regards the Privileges of the Peerage]
      
>> I get to ferret out 
>>      worthwhile candidates for awards (which I've been doing since long 
>>      before I was a Peer). 
     
>You get to push for worthwhile candidates IN the order meetings, rather 
>then just sending letters to the Crown.

Hm.  In truth, I give my advice to the Crown and they do with it as they 
will.  As they always have.  Perhaps in matters regarding cooking or 
poetry, they may give my words some added worth, but overall, it feels the 
same.  In truth, I had equal or better luck promoting people for awards 
before I was a peer.  Maybe I am unique in that, but I think not.
 
>  You get to come to the candidate and say, "Hey, I'm a Laurel and I know 
>that the Laurels would like you to improve on X before we poll you for 
>the order".  

As a matter of policy, I don't.  Most of the members of our order don't 
(that I've talked to). I know the Chivalry does tho', but I have not been 
privy to their counsel on this matter.
     
>You get a chance at the better students because you can make them 
>apprentices and give them green belts, and everyone will know that a 
>Laurel, at least, thinks well of your students.  Seems like a 
>privilege.
     
     Pish and tush.  They're beating down my doors.  I should hope that I 
     would teach everyone equally, and I can only think of the reputation 
     *my* students would get! :-)  I think the recognition of one's 
     students as being good would come from their excellence, not the rank 
     of their teacher....
     
>>  I get to try to 
>>      improve people's experience of Atlantia and the Society 
>(ditto >      again). 
     
>You get a position of respect to soap-box your interpretation of what is 
>important in the game.  

     Perhaps.  Perhaps it comes with being an 'old fart'.  I'm not sure 
     people (who'vecbeen around longer than five minutes) respect my 
     interpretation more because I'm a peer.  I think they respect my 
     interpretation because I have (over the years) thought it out and 
     fooled with it til I came up with what works for me and is fun for 
     me, and which might, therefore, work and be fun for someone else.  
     
     [Of course, it could be because I am a peer, in which case I have 
     obviously been failing to take advantage of my awesome power! :-)]
      
>You get to speak with greater authority when you insist on the 
>importance of poetry or forsooth speach (both of which I agree are 
>important).
     
     Ok, as a craftsperson.  My Laurel recognizes my ability in those 
     areas, and therefore, without knowing further of me, you might believe 
     that I have some small learning to impart in those areas.  But the 
     authority comes from the *learning*, not from the Laurel.  
     
     [Witness for example, Mistress Deirdre - who would not recognise her 
     learning on the arts of chivalry?? ]
     
>>      And more importantly, why should those privileges (whether 
>>      they exist or not),affect one's ability to maintain 
>>      peer-quality?
     
>Because maintaining peer-quality means trying to influence, trying to 
>teach, trying to guide the kingdom and society in your image for it.  
>All these things are easier to do, if you are already a peer.  

How about 'once you're a peer'.  You're doing it all along, it just gets 
easier, particularly when working with a new generation.  

[Re: your particular incident]

> As it is not, I feel objective enough to refer to the incident.  And it 
>is hardly what I would regard as a unique case, and is certainly not 
>unlikely.
     
        Lacking further data, I drop the point.

And as an aside from your reply to Gyrth et al:
        
> First of all, what happens when peers from another kingdom Recognize a worthy 
>candidate from Atlantia whom our peerage order ignores.  Isn't it just a little
>embarrasing to have Eastern Laurels invading an Atlantian Laurel meeting, 
>demanding to know why someone has not been made a peer?  

Isn't it funny that the reverse happened not so long ago???

>Is it possible that our values in this kingdom are a little out of wack with 
>the rest of the Society.  Remember, after all, that Knights, Laurels, and 
>Pelicans are Society Peers, who, by virtue of their elevation, deserve respect 
>throughout the Knowne World.  Isn't Atlantia scoffing at the rest of the 
>Society by claiming to make "Better" peers?

Virtually every kingdom is different from every other one (and I'vecplayed in 
about 6), and I'vecheard each claim, at various times and in various reigns, 
that their peerages were harder/easier to get.  Why not appreciate the 
difference and carry on?

Keilyn