Re: Can't change lead into gold (peerages) ALAS LONG

["Buck, Richard" <buckr@cmsmail.costman.com>]

>From Richard again:
#> Leifr
# Tahdg

#>I've answered the point about universality elsewhere.
#No, Leifr. You've ignored the point about universality elsewhere...and
#repeatedly. And more than that, you've managed to tell several VERY
#experienced folks that THEY were simply wrong. I'll take their forty plus
# years in the SCA over your four (you're estimate as I recall) any day.

Well, they are human and they do make mistakes.  I think you are missing
some of Leifr's point.  A number of Atlantia peers have vanished as  soon as
they were elevated, and stay away from 2 to 3 years.  Why?

#>Tahdg, I would like at this time for you to list the peer qualities
#>which a person cannot acquire from being in the Society.  I always
#deletia
#Courtesy, Honor, and Courage. Mark this well--Three Personal Qualities of
#a Peer--Innate characteristics. The Society encourages their DISPLAY and
#OPEN EXERCISE. Don't confuse courtesy and social skills. The former is a
#more deletia
#qualities or has them not. They are woven in the fabric of their being.
#What can be taught to gentles is how to SHOW themselves. You may have
#heard "Not to hide your light under a basket." The Society does NOT
#create the light, but it may remove the basket.

I disagree.  Some people have change their attitudes specifically due to 
exposure to the SCA and its life style.  Some of the sub-cultures 
surrounding the SCA have the opposite effect.

#>Then I would like you to list everyone you've known for over two years
#>in the Society who is this "lead"of which you speak, and tell me why
#>they will never be peers.
#Momma didn't raise no fool...and I prefer to RETURN insults and bad
#manners ("Postage due" don't you know).

Think of it as a return on their investment.

#>I hope nobody else uses your extreme definition of this "We Recognize
#>Peers" philosophy, because it seems that you are inherently insulting
#>everyone who you do not currently regard as a viable candidate for the
#>peerage.
#Read the posts..."nobody" is writing from a multitude of places and
#under a host of names...and the peers I recognize aren't known for
#insults.

Ah, but whose peers?  There is an element of social activity in this.

#As for 'bashing' teachers who take students, I will offer two specific
#and one group example. Baron Heinrich (Bright Hills) takes armoring
#students--I should know, I'm one of them. I don't see him getting
#bashed for his students. Myself--I have lots of students--in at least
#two kingdoms--they include Barons, Knights, and Laurels. Nobody is
#bashing me that I've seen. The group example is all the teachers of the

Well, I beg to differ.  The big one is that there are individuals, many of 
whom hold peerages who have demeaned individuals efforts because they didn't 
buy the party line on how it was done, and then got nuked several years 
later in competitions or shown up in exhibitions because the person they 
complained about was a better scholar and finally developed better 
technique.  The problem is that the squeaky wheel thing.  You only notice 
the ones that are a pain.

Richard of La Rochelle.