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Re: Desire for Peerage

Dafydd ap Gwystl adds more nicely thought comments to this discussion:

]Luther eloquently states the standard dogma:
] (I mean no offence to Luther here--it is just that the
] normal position is rarely so concisely stated)

]>   The token is tarnished by desire for it. 

   Absolutely no offense taken at all. In point of fact, I had no idea that it 
was considered standard dogma. I am an absolute SCA newbie of less than a year 
in the organization and had no idea. All the Peers I have had personal contact 
with thus far fit this model nicely, as well as, many kind people I have met in 
my small stay that are not Peers. 
   I first learned what a Peer was in the SCA new group rec.org.sca. The Rialto 
was having a huge flame war over this topic when I first found the SCA last year
that made me wonder why anyone would ever want an award. My mind was changed was
soon changed when I met a few.

]When I was a squire I wanted to be a knight.  I didn't try to
]pussyfoot around--in my heart of hearts I didn't say to myself
]that I wanted to "be worthy", although I certainly didn't want
]to be unworthy--I wanted to _BE_ a knight.  I wanted to be
]knighted, I wanted to wear the regalia, I wanted to be widely
]known and respected, I wanted it all.  Of course I wanted to
]"be worthy" as well--I didn't want to cheat my way into a
]knighthood, I wanted to _be_ a knight.

   Maybe the problem here is the fact that it is so hard to distinguish between 
aspiring and coveting. Wanting to *BE* a knight is different than wanting to be 
   Splitting hairs, but what the heck...

   Someone else's point, made off list, seems to also be SCA dogma, "the mule 
will NOT work as much if you give him the carrot too soon."

   I personally prefer the Zen view of Peerage. The Jedi Peer. Peer-do (Japanese
Joke) It's the practical view that seems to cause heartache.

Dafydd continues:

]As Yaakov implies, the standard dogma creates a situation where
]we publically deny the desire for awards, yet have a culture where
]they are in fact both desired and set up as icons of achievement.

]This is hypocrisy.

   Sadly true. 

   What can we do? 

   Eliminate the orders? (problem gone but will never happen) Create official 
checklists like they have for badges in the cub scouts? (value of the award 
plummets. It becomes more prestigious to deny the award, like Marlin Brando's 
Oscar) Everyone points at the problem and no one can seem to point to a 

   What can we do?

   I know. Drink.

Headed for 7-11,

Luther the Thirsty