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RE: MR: Disc: Pay-to-Fight
Poster: Gregory Stapleton <gregsta@MICROSOFT.com>
Greetings, Milord Edward,
I believe I understand the position you are taking on this, you spoke
yourself well, but I just cannot bring myself to accept your arguments.
If I understand rightly, you are saying that the $20.00 membership fee,
for an associate membership, may put a financial burden on a new or
occassional player, if they want to fight in the SCA: heavy, archer or
rapier. <Taking into account that anyone can play anything else they
want to in the SCA without having to become a member, except fighting.
Though, they may have to pay a small additional surcharge at events they
I have recently become authorized to fight and I built most of my kit
myself or picked up pieces at local sporting goods stores that sell used
equipment for very little $$$.
Considering, by our Kingdom Laws (as I understand them), you must own
your own gear before your authorization, I spent the following money on
the following items (these are the minimums I would consider any fighter
to need and do not list all of the items in my kit):
$40.00 for a sheet of 12 guage mild steel to make my spaggenhelm helmet
$5.00 for the rivets for above
$15.00 for a pair of elbows
$8.00 for the elbow pads
$20.00 for a pair of knees
$10.00 for the knee pads
$10.00 for a Jock Strap and Cup
$15.00 for a weight lifter belt for Kidney protection
$20.00 for a gorget
$15.00 for a shield basket
$15.00 for a sword basket
$10.00 for a piece of Rattan
$20.00 for a shield blank
$8.00 for heater hose for shield edging
$20.00 for assorted duct tape, straps, wire and buckles to hold the
If I've had to spend this much, at a bare minimum (and I've tried to do
this as cheaply as I could). in order to fight, I'm not going to choke
at spending less than 10% more, in order to be able to authorize.
If the newbie / OP dosen't have $20.00 to pay for a membership in order
to be able to fight, they surely aren't going to have enough money to
put together their own kit, even building most of it themselves.
So, let's say that they don't have the money for a
fighter's/archer's/fencer's equipment or the $20.00 for an associate
membership. Where does this leave them? Only with about a million
other things that they can do in the Arts and Sciences within our
Society. Remember, fighting is only half of our ticket, though a very
important half it is. As much as I am coming to love fighting, my first
four years in the Society have been devoted primarily to A&S and it will
always be my first love. There are so many things I want to do and try
in the Arts and Sciences, within our Society, my current greatest fear
is one lifetime will not be enough to do all of them.
I just cannot see the membership requirement as being considered
I mean no disrespect by this reply, I'm just trying to hash it out
logically to the best of my meager ability.
Lord Gawain Kilgore
>From: Edward R. Ewen, Jr.[SMTP:firstname.lastname@example.org]
>Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 1996 7:29 PM
>Subject: Re: MR: Disc: Pay-to-Fight
>Poster: "Edward R. Ewen, Jr." <email@example.com>
>> Jay Shaner Wrote:
>> What are the many distressing side-effects? The only thing I have heard so
>> far is not wanting to pay $20 for an associate membership to be able to
>And gave me pause. I have been opposed to the PAY-TO-PLAY mentality
>since the whole thing started lo these many years ago. It seems to me there
>are (and have been as long as I can recall) three levels of participation in
>1) The Occassional Participant: This gentle shows up, as the title
>suggests, occasionally. A regular at local events, he is rarely seen
>anywhere else. A reasonable effort is made by the OP to blend in, and he
>owns enough garb to make it through a weekend event(maybe). He attends
>events to get away, meet with friends, and have a good time. SCA
>politics, organization, etc. do not interest him. Many OP's stay at this
>stage, never getting more involved than the occasional event or fighter
>practice. This classification also holds the Newbies, people for whom
>the SCA is a new and different thing, to be tested and tried before
>deciding whether to mature into the next classification....
>2) The Regular Participant: This gentle is a more active participant.
>She is known to own many sets of garb, has active interests in period
>activities, may hold a local office, and is generally up on the current
>socio-political situation in her area. The workings of the SCA matter to
>her, and the SCA has taken a place of much greater prominence in her life
>than the life of the OP. Some/Most of these gentles hold memberships,
>and a small percentage mature into...
>3) The Dedicated Participant: We all know (and in many cases owe a great
>debt to) people in this class. Here are the Crowns, Chivalry, and Peerage.
>Here also are those who have yet to reach such lofty positions, but who
>toil tirelessly at making the local/regional/kingdom level group
>funtion. These are the gentles who have held office for so many years
>we've lost count...because SOMEONE has to do it.
>Now, the point is, none of these classification can exist independently.
>Each is maintained over time through the 'advancement' of those in lower
>classifications. OP's become RP's and RP's become DP's. Without
>occasional participants, there can be no growth, and the organization
>would stagnate and die. And therein lies the problem. Through policies
>like Pay to Play we are excluding our lifesblood.
>It is my feeling that OP's contribute at the level of their participation.
>By attending events they add dollars to the local group's coffers, raise
>attendance, and provide grassroot strength to the local group. In time,
>some will fall away but some will remain, taking on greater responsibility
>as they do.
>The requirements of Pay to Play (and before it was rescinded the
>Non-Member Surcharge) put us in an exclusionary mode, in effect saying "In
>order to see if this is really something you want to do, you must pay the
>organization $20 - $35." Most new participants could give a fig about
>recieving the kingdom newsletter and an occasional TI. All that
>information is available through the local group. In truth, after 15 years
>in the SCA _I_ could give a fig about getting the kingdom newsletter and
>an occasional TI.
>In most cases, these OP's are young adults, with minimal resources. $20
>to a college student can be a lot of money. To be fair, not all newbies
>are that broke, but most people would rather spend that $20 going to an
>event, or patronizing a merchant for something cool.
>There is little to be gained by Pay-To-Play, and in my opinion, much to
>Yours, In Service,
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