Re: [EK] Re:native american persona? (fwd)

[mn13189@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU]

Poster: mn13189@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU


Tisman, I think you are a bit confused on the issue.  Let me try and claer
a few things up, and hopefully mollify some of your concerns.  To wit:

On Wed, 26 Mar 1997 TismanBRos@aol.com wrote:

> I know that the major portion of members are of european descent.  Were the
> charter members of the SCA of nationalities or descents of other cultures?

What descent the original players of our game were is a moot point.  They
were trying to re-create a fair-like atmosphere during the European Middle
Ages.  A group of Eskimos could do the same thing, and it wouldn't matter.
It is the goal that counts.

>  What I mean is, did they think that perhaps one day someone that was of
> african, asian, north or south american lineage (and wanted to research and
> practice their ancestral customs) would come along and automatically persue
> the practices of europeans, just because they think there are no other
> options?  

People of any lineage can and should (in my opinion) learn about their
culture.  But the SCA is a re-creation group that focuses on Europen
culture from 600-1600AD (approx.), and if one is not interested in
anything that falls within those parameters, then they probably will not
have much fun playing our game.  It is a game, after all, ond like most
games it has rules and boundaries that give it shape and form.  Although
our rules are a lot less strict than most organizations like us.

> I think that the main prescence of the SCA is for personal historical
> knowledge.  The reason for wanting this knowledge, for most people, is that
> they want to know how their ancestors saw things.  At least that is the
> reason for my taking a  Scottish persona, and other people that have taken on
> the personas of a like nature because of their family's history.

This is certainly a valid reason for choosing a persona, but it is not the
only one.  One of the great things about our game is that you can research
and become someone from any Europen culture (or culture that had Europen
contact prior to 1600).  You aren't limited to your own heritage.  So the
main reason for the SCA (aside form having fun), is historical knowledge
of Europe during what we choose to call the Middle Ages.  For some it
becomes an exercise in personal history, but it does not have to be.

> I think that I owe you an explaination for my being upset.  I have brought
> several new comers  into the light that the SCA brings.  They become
> fascinated with the idea of living in the old traditions (even for a weekend
> at a time).  When they hear more, such as tourneys, court, and things of that
> nature, then their first response is to conform to the european based
> lifestyles for persona.

When you get your membership card in the mail, you also recieve an
introductory letter that says (my own paraphrase here), you are more than
welcome to have an Ancient Roman persona, or (fill in the blank with
anyhting outside the scope of the SCA), but YOU will have to conform to
the European based structure of the SCA.  The SCA will not conform to suit
you.  Example, don't expect to be able to attend a lot of Ancient Roman
events-- and everyone else will have to wonder why this medieval European
nobleman is wearing a bedsheet.

>  Their second response in hearing that they will
> probably be the only one that will be researching, practicing, or otherwise
> involving that culture, they run.

I always hate to loose newcomers, but realistically speaking, if none of
the various cultures that existed within or had contact with Europe in our
thousand year time span interests someone, then they probably would not
have a lot of fun playing in the SCA.

> (My opinion only) I don't think that we, as a group, support alternate
> cultures as open mindedly as we ought.

It is not a matter of weather or not we support other cultures.  Anyone of
any race or background is welcome to play our game.  They just have to
accept the fact that they will be playing OUR game.  Sir Kane (God rest
him) was of Somaon decsent, and had an Irish persona.  Where else can you
see black women walking around in Elizabethan court dress and it not seem
odd.  But the scope of the game is still the European Middle Ages.  It is
not a matter of "we are only going to recreate the cultures we like."
It is a matter or weather or not they had contact with Europe within our
period.  Weather or not American Indians fit the bill is what is up for
debate, not weather or not American Indians are good or bad.  

>  We have a majority of members that
> focus on and study europe, but no groups that offer classes on say
> traditional Egyptian mummification (although the technique was extended from
> the Egyptians time, to that of the kings mummifications in europe), or the
> effects of the cultures that were experienced by the crusades (when the other
> cultures influenced the europeans in their various ways).

Well, what classes are taught really depends on what the teachers know.
There was a recent TI article on the Ancient Egyptian game of Senet.  This
is, technically, outside the scpe of our period.  But things like that do
occasionally pop up.  They just won't ever be the mainstream.  Then we
would stop being a medieval re-creation group.

> I admit, I approached this matter as someone that was not thinking of other's
> feelings.  I just tend to get tired of seeing my friends decide that they
> don't want to play, based on the difficulty to express their ancestral
> cultures.  This is the reason for the fire in me, as I have had over a dozen
> people that I am close to grow from enthusiastic to downtrodden.
> I am truly sorry for my rudeness, and poor judgement.

I'm sorry your friends lost interest in the SCA, Tisman.  But the SCA is
really not for everybody.  We offer a wider range of study than any other
historical re-enactment group that I know of, but we have to have a
minimum amount of guidleines and restrictions in order to maintain any
coherance.  
	I personally think Native American persoans would be ok (As long
as they weren't done "hollywood" style-- but then again, I don't like
hollywwod style Scots or Vikings, either).  But they should be a rare
thing, and treated with wonder, as they were in period.  A Native American
persona would be hard to do.  The infrequent contact they had with the
Vikings all ended in warfare.  In later periods, they were treated as
slaves or curiosities for nobles.  Any pre-Columbian contact other than
the Vikings is at this point more stipulation than science, so I won't
deal with that.
	But realize that even European personas have touble coexisting in
the SCA sometimes.  There is very little in the way of the SCA that
resembles traditional Gaelic society.  So I've had to adopt my persona a
bit and make him a visitor in a non-Gaelic society.  I think most personas
not from the immediate Western-Europen culture have to do likewise.
	My main point here is not to argue one way or the other on the
Native American issue.  It is just to explain why some people are
responding the way they are, hopefully so that you will not become as
upset at them.  No one is saying Native AMericans (or any other culture)
are bad or unworthy of study in any way.  It is only weather or not they
fit within the scope of our society that is being debated.  
	There are a lot of wonderful things that we like to study that do
not fit within our game.  For instance:  most SCAdians I talk to are into
Classical Mythology, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Fantasy novells, computers,
traditional cultures in places like MesoAmerica, Africa, etc., and your
random Ancient History curiosities like Easter Island and Stonehenge.  But
we cannot fit all of this into our game.  This does not make these things
unworthy in any way.  We just have to persue these interests outside of
the SCA.
	So please don't get your feelings hurt.  No one is trying to deny
any race of it's heritage.  Just remember it is a game we are talking
about, and smile.
	Aye,
	Eogan Og Mac Labruinn 


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