Romans, Empires, SPARC stations

["Stephanie M. Thorson" <smt2@st-andrews.ac.uk>]

Poster: "Stephanie M. Thorson" <smt2@st-andrews.ac.uk>

My apologies if this note (appended) seemed a bit incoherent.  I read
about 3 posts before I hit the reply key and had lost track of who said
what - partly because the server here had crashed late yesterday, and
queued mail kept arriving while I was reading and writing this morning,
which made my SPARC station beep about once every 25 seconds.  Very
distracting.  At any rate, regardless of who actually said what, about
what, or in response to whom, my comments about the Eastern Empire are
correct.  Please ignore my last paragraph, except for the bit about "don't
quote me."  :) I thought better of it, but hit ctrl-x (send) instead of
ctrl-c (cancel) and off it went.  Cancellations of messages have to be
confirmed, maybe it would be a good thing if "sends" did too. 

Alianora

-------
On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Dave Montuori wrote:

> Scripsit Tamar:
> > IIRC the "fall of Rome" bit was from the time the actual City of Rome 
was
> > invaded in 410 AD.  The theory was that Rome no longer counted as an
> > effective empire when they couldn't protect their capital city, 
therefore
> > the Dark Ages essentially began then.  The Holy Roman Empire, by using
> > that name, admitted that they were not the actual Roman Empire any 
more.
>
> Um, the "Holy Roman..." term was coined considerably later than the 
entity
> itself. If you see a Carolingian coin, you will find it states "RENOVATIO
> IMPERII ROMANI" (but in the correct cases etc.) -- as far as they were
> concerned it *was* The Roman Empire, back again after a long vacation.

Tamar may be referring to the EASTERN Roman Empire, AKA the Byzantine
Empire to us ignorant Western folk.  The "fall of Rome" only affected
the
Western European half of the Empire; the eastern portion, with it's
capital at Constantinople, endured nicely until the Turks finally
overran
it in the 15th century.  The division of the RE into eastern and western
parts was effected under Constantine the Great, who built the eastern
capital near the site of a small town called Byzantium (whence our
adjective, Byzantine) and modestly named it after himself.  The denizens
of that fair city firmly believed, not without some justification, that
they were the true successors of the empire of Rome, and even when they
had reverted to speaking Greek called themselves _Romanoi_ - Romans.

> Is "Holy Roman Empire" a Renaissance term, or earlier? When did it come
> into common use?

It's a medieval term.  I believe its first use was shortly after the
coronation of Charlemagne as Emperor, but don't quote me on that.

Alianora
************************************************************************
****  
*
Stephanie M. Thorson			|  SCA: Lady Alianora Munro
Dept. of Scottish History		|  Clan White Wing
University of St Andrews		|  Tarkhan, Khanate Red Lion

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