Re: The Real Story from Kofryna the Goatherd...

[Michael Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>]

Poster: Michael Houghton <herveus@access.digex.net>

Howdy!

Did I poke another hornet's nest?

At 1:19 PM -0700 6/3/97, Finn wrote:
>Poster: Tom Rettie <tom@his.com>
>
>At 12:20 PM 6/3/97 -0400, Kofryna the Goatherd wrote:
>
>>What  I really donít understand at this point that I just observed
>>regarding the fact that a boat, plant or glass doesnít have to be
>>clearly identifiable. If this is true,  then why is the goat versus cow
>>so important.
>
>I think there may be a slight misunderstanding here.  I don't believe it's
>true that a boat does not need to be clearly identifiable, it's that the
>TYPE of boat does not need to be clearly identifiable.   Whether I blazon
>it as a cog, carrack, drekkar, shallop, galleon, lymphad, hulk, gallease,
>or galley, they are all for the purposes of heraldry, a ship.  In cases of
>conflict, changing a cog to a galleon will not resolve the conflict.  Given
>that there is much debate among naval historians as to just what each of
>these looked like (and there's a lot of overlap), this makes some sense.

I think this is a pretty good summary.
>
>In your case, I think it would be more that the TYPE of goat is not
>important (a goat is a goat, or course, or course...), but the distinction
>between goat and cow is.

again on the mark
>
>My suggestion: redraw the thing in a manner that the heralds accept as a
>goat -- get it passed -- and then draw it however it so pleases you
>(preferably in a medieval and/or heraldic manner).  It is perfectly period
>and realistic for the same arms to be rendered differently by different
>artists.  I myself have seen Drake's arms rendered in at least half a dozen
>different styles.

I've been known to give this advice from time to time...
>
>This is, after all, your device, not the bureaucrats'.
>
Amen...perhaps this device should have been returned in kingdom, but it
wasn't. For whatever reason, it got sent to Laurel. Laurel returned it.

I think people are mixing issues here, as this discussion blossoms to
occupy much bandwidth (would we do THAT?).

Please note that, despite rumors to the contrary, heralds are human. We
make mistakes from time to time. Please also note that when one is
registering armory, the picture takes precedence over the words. The words
can and will be modified as necessary to describe the picture. Sometimes we
call submitters to clarify points, but it is not normally done. I'll be
glad to talk with people at University about this.

yours,
Herveus

------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@access.digex.net  | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.access.digex.net/~herveus/


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