Re: For the record

[Heather Swann <heather@pop.net>]

Poster: Heather Swann <heather@pop.net>

(snip)
> > Uhhh...no...rather than go through the 3rd submission on the same device
> > that has been bounced twice for reasons that have *absolutely nothing*
> > to do with the quality of the device (which actually has been praised by
> > at least one person for being quite period, and elegantly simple), she
> > is choosing to save her time for pursuits that interest her more.
> 
> Simple, yes.  However, neither a horse nor 'My Pretty Pony' is a
> unicorn, regardless of whether a horn is on it or not.  My device would
> have been bounced back pretty quick if I had drawn 'Puff the Magic
> Dragon'.  The whole idea is to make an attempt at being medieval.  *That*
> is why the College of Arms defines the heraldic unicorn the way it does.
> 
> Without seeing the second submission, I can't vouch for what happened the
> second time around.


As a scribe, I'd like to suggest doing what I do to draw arms
correctly:  I trace.  get a copy of Fox-Davies or another book on
heraldry, go to a copy shop and make a copy of the beast in the correct
posture the size you need for the herald's forms.  You can either trace
it, or do a 'paste up' copy of the form, copy that so it's nice and
clean for the heralds, and then colour it.  Surely they can't complain
about that, and it makes it easier for you.

> 
>snip<
> > She determined that since the College of Heralds has absolutely no
> > enforcement powers, she doesn't care about them.  I've tried to convince
> > her that the reasons for the return are legitimate (although I
> > personally think one of the reasons was trivial, I bow to the judgement
> > of those who disagree), but she has decided that she doesn't like the
> > game, so she isn't going to play.

Whereas that's true, it isn't so cool when you run into someone with the
same arms.  I've known folks in that predicament and it wasn't fun for
either party.  No one was chastised, but it was just a big let-down. 
Both parties decided that registering devices was the way to go...

> 
> snip<
> > If you want to teach folks that their device is poorly drawn on the
> > submission form, why not say something like "Okay, the device is legal,
> > clear of conflict, and approvable, therefore we pass it.  However, the
> > color of the field on the submission form was a little more orangish
> > than would be considered normal (or the unicorn is too horsey),
> > submitter should be made aware of this and note it in future use."
> 
> Because no one learns from success, only their failures?  8^)

Actually, that seems reasonable....

> 
> Actually, Laurel *does* do what you suggest--within limits.  If the item
> in question is too far from period practice (as we understand it), it gets
> returned.  If people want to learn that their devices are not drawn
> correctly, then they should go look it up (any consult table should have
> at least one handy, and it is recommended that local heralds have a
> picture reference as well).  
(snip)
> 
> Another point:  some of us scribes(yeah, I do that, too) get the emblazons
> from the Kingdom files (or once upon a time we did).  Having unheraldic
> arms on an otherwise spiff scroll looks silly.  Not all scribes are
> heralds, nor do they all understand heraldeze.  If you were such a scribe,
> and you were handed the emblazon from the Kingdom files to copy onto a
> scroll, how would you feel about copying something that didn't look right?
> I guess it depends on your personal integrity as an artisan....


Hey now!  I'm a scribe but I'm not a herald.  I count on the heralds to
get it right.  It's their job to buy expensive books and do hours of
research!  ;)  It's the scribes' job to buy expensive books and paper
and paints and inks and tools and do hours of tracing and writing and
painting!  ;)

I really loved it years ago when you did get the picture with the
assignment.  These days you get the words and then call the heralds who
very graciously spend hours on the phone saying, "No, not that kind of
dog...more like a hound......big ears....and those little bells...not
that kind of bell.....okay, ya know how jingle bells
look?...yeah.....like that, uhhuh......no it's the part on top that's
blue....yeah, and the other part is gold....okay, now what's the fifth
set of arms you need me to describe?"

I want to get it right as a scribe, but that means I have to call the
heralds.  When I get the picture I hope it's right, 'cause I honestly
wouldn't be sure if it was or no.  I always try to check with a
herald...

Being a herald AND a scribe?  Where the heck do you find the time?  They
are two of the most labour-intensive volunteer-and-give-away-your-work
jobs in the SCA....yikes!  I'm impressed....!  :)
> 
> > Who does that harm?
> 
> The client.  The client learns nothing if we tell them 'OK, but it isn't
> period.'  Personally, I'd say that Snoopy doing the happy dance on the
> grass does not equate with 'Vert, a beagle rampant'.  If the client is
> forced to draw their arms in a period manner, then they have learned
> something (other than Heralds are nit-picky).  At one time, felt as you
> did, but after participating in the CoH and the CoA for a while, I found
> that I agree with this aspect of the process.
> 
> In service,
> Eldred

The trick is, don't slam the person for not being a good artist...just
try to find someone who can do the drawing the way the heralds need it. 
Or trace the son-of-a-gun!  :)

Miri
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