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Re: Addressing Titles (mundanely)

Poster: keith.finn@erols.com

Actually, as I understand it, only a Baron is referred to as "Lord
Blank" (or more formally, "Lord of Blank").  An Earl would be referred
to as "My Lord of Blank" informally, but formally as John Doe, Earl of
Blank".  Viscount (an Earl's heir) is "the Right Honorable", a Marquess
is "Most Honorable".  A Duke could be "His Grace" as you say, or else
"Most Noble".  Referring to him as "Duke" would be pretty familiar, and
probably not proper, although Marlborough's troops occasionally referred
to him as "Duke John".  This is early modern usage (post union of the
crowns), and I don't know specifically how much it had changed from
earlier centuries, or been affected by English court usage (never trust
those Sassenachs to leave well enough alone, ye' ken).  Also, while I'm
babbling on, Laird was often used to refer to the Chief of a clan,
regardless of his feudal rank, so he might be as high as a Duke, or as
low as a Baron or even not necessarily noble at all, and still be "the
Laird" to his folk.  And I'm sure that the further one got into the
Highlands, the less one would find the more formal forms of address.  

Finn MacIain 

EoganOg@aol.com wrote:
> Poster: EoganOg@aol.com
> Diand Cosby asked me a question I am unsure of, so I thought I woul dpost my
> reply to this list in case anyone had any better information.
> She wanted to know how a lady would address a knight in and around 13th
> century Scotland.  I know how such titles are addressed in *modern day*
> Scotland but I do not know how they may have changed over the centuries.  So I
> will give what information I know and if anyone has any better sources for
> more period titles, please let us know.
> That being said, the following does NOT apply to how we address people with
> SCA titles.
> For a knight, since that was the question asked, we will use the made up name
> of Sir Malcolm Innes of Mull (no such person actually exists).  The proper
> ways of addressing him would be either by his territorial title of "Mull" or
> as "Sir Malcolm" or "Sir Malcolm Innes."  Sir Innes or Sir Mull are incorrect.
> He may have a preference over which he preferrs himself.  Otherwise, either is
> correct.  If Sir Malcolm had a wife, she would be Lady Innes.  If Sir Malcolm
> also happened to be cheif of clan Innes, he could be referred to as simpley
> "the Innes" but we don't need to go into that here.
> Now we move on to other ranks...  A Duke is referred to as "Your Grace" in
> formal occasions.  A less formal way would be to reffer to him or her as
> "Duke" or "Duchess."
> Marquesses, Earls, Viscounts, and Lords are all referred to as "Lord (blank)"
> where blank is their territorial title, not their name.  We will use as an
> example the late Gordon Teall, Laird of Teallach.  The proper way to address
> him would have been as Lord (or Laird) Teallach, not Lord Teal.  If you use a
> given name with a title it comes before the "lord."  This is where we get
> George Gordon Lord Byron.  "My Lord" and "My Lady" are also formal ways of
> address, indicating subservience.
> One other footnote:  one thing you see in Scottish titles is the appellation
> "of that Ilk."  This simply means "of the same."  So (to use an example from
> TV), Duncan MacLeod of MacLeod is simply "Duncan Macleod of that Ilk."
> As I said before, this is all true in modern Scotland.  If anyone knows of a
> more period reference, please let me know.
> Aye,
> Eogan Og
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