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Re: Questions... (fwd)

Poster: Dave Montuori <damont@wolfstar.com>

Scripsit Pedro:
> The bishops of Rome before [1054] were considered among the great
> patriarchs of Christendom, along with the patriarchs of Constantinople,
> Alexandria, Jerusalem, and Damascus (or Aleppo, I forget),

Antioch of Syria was the fifth of the "Big 5" patriarchates. However, with
most of the Levant solidly under Muslim rule from the 8th to 11th century,
there were really only two patriarchs that mattered during this period,
being those in the two imperial capitals. With only two to contend for the
position of primacy, the divisions between Rome and Constantinople got

IIRC, the patriarchs of Constantinople also claimed to be the heirs to the
Petrine commission, arguing that Peter had established his see *in the
imperial capital,* which see had moved to Constantinople during the
declining years of the Western Empire. However, Tristan's original query
of "when was the office of Pope created" can be answered without getting
too mired in that argument. Not that it isn't fun anyway...

> HREs, kings, and popes fought contantly over who got to appoint whom
> to what office, and several times, HREs went down to Rome and deposed
> popes whom they found to be inconvenient - 

And on a couple of occasions, the Pope managed to depose the HRE, though
never without a major fight (Frederick II being the best-known example).
On one occasion in the 1080's, Pope Gregory VII deposed Emperor Henry IV,
who marched on Rome and deposed Gregory but could not regain the imperial
throne from Rudolf of Swabia.

This stuff beats made-up soap operas all hollow.

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