Re: (fwd) From Edmund, Kateryn, Bjorn, Morgen, & Anne

[Mikhail <we4@widomaker.com>]

Poster: Mikhail <we4@widomaker.com>

A few comments and corrections:

At 11:15 AM 10/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Poster: Mark Schuldenfrei <schuldy@abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>
>
>  Okay, for those of us who have no idea about this, and since it seems to
>  have worked out ok, what really happened? 
>
>A friend asked the same question, so here is what I wrote to him [editted a
>little: there are things you say to friends that you don't say out loud]:
>
>----Begin Text----
>Short form, if there is such a thing.
>
>
>Pennsic autocrats took away camping land that had been traditionally used by
>Bridge, aka the Crown Princess of the East.  Horde was asked/told/invited to
>give them land.  Add to that that Lucan (who was next door) kept shoving into
>their land as well.
>

They took land from many groups, not just from us, the pre-registration was
*much* larger than anyone would have thought resulting in a land squeeze.
However, they took more than was needed leaving the new camp spacious and us
quite crowded. (Note:  The Great Household of the Dark Horde [129
pre-registered] was the fourth largest pre-registered group after:
Northshield Royla Encampment [169],   Kingdom of Merides [100 + 50, two
camps]   and the Baront of Northwoods [100 + 37, also two camps].  The
Kingdom of the East had 104 and the Middle had 33. {BTW Atlantia had 99}
Vicount Sir Edward [the Landgraff] was reputedly so upset about _ how_ it
all happened that he threatened to resign (note: this happened before I
arrived and I got the story from my Brothers who had had to deal with it
all.  Hearsay, but from a trusted source.).


>Horde blamed all this (despite their being independent campsites associated
>with EK Royal) on the Crown of the East.
> 

One camp (the one we had the most problem with) was for what His Magesty
Bjorn referred to as "his Princess", how involved do you want? 

>
>Bjorn was trying to figure out opening ceremonies: he asked people if Horde had
>been traditionally part of them: he was told NO by people who should have said
>"I don't know".  He was given more bad advice on their role, and Edmund had no
>better knowledge.
>

Neither of them asked us, or mentioned any concerns that made abreivating
the opening cerremonies desirable.  This was a celebratory anniversary of 25
Pennsics with much pompt and show.  Was it unreasonable for the only group
outside the two primary kingdoms who had been presant at all 25 to expect
some inclusion? If they wanted a "Kingdoms only" war they should have so
informed us.  (We might still have objected and it would have been a great
opertunity for some good schick, but it would have been the polite thing to do.)
Except for a few social/political  faux pas both the Eastern and Middle
Royalty did a good job.  Most people had fun.  The Battles were more even,
although if you're just going to even up sides anyway what difference do
alliances, treaties and mercenaries make?  If this trend continues Pennsic
will be much different in the future.

>Horde was excluded from Opening Ceremonies, and Bjorn made the mistake of
>calling them a splinter group.  As you might expect, the Horde went ballistic.
>[Note, there are only 3 relatively inactive people who are in the Horde where
>Bjorn lives]
>

(One man's ballistic is anothers just concern, and not ours alone.  The Dark
Horde support ribbons were started by others.  Our only contribution was to
advise a change so they wouldn't be too much like a Horde Cord.)
Our displeasure with the Eastern Crown was not limited to this, although the
crack about being a splinter group was *much* the worst of the two.  Just
because we are outside the Kingdoms doesn't mean we are a splinter group.
All of our activities, except household meetings, take place within the SCA.
We hold no private events with varriant rules as both the Tuchux and Acre do
(two groups we were compared to).  We were finally invited to join the
opening procession, but on 20 min. warning, when we had been told we would
have no part in it.  We politely declined.

>
>Enter Duchess Anne, who is NOT a Horde person, but who has been associated with
>Horde since God wore knickers.  She tried to see the various Queens, to talk
>about this stuff, and was refused.  She wrote a nasty editorial (that got front
>page status in the Independent, without being labeled opinion) and then barged
>right into the Queen's Tea, and was rude and inappropriate at Morgen and
>Katryn, and ruined the social gathering.
>

I don't think the editorial was all that nasty, pointed maybe.
(FYI Duchess Anne was Queen of the Middle for Pennsics 1&2)
She tried to get a meeting with the Eastern Royals to voice her concerns (as
she felt was her honorable duty as a member of the order of the Rose) but
was put off.  She waited outside the gate at the Tea until *invited* in,
then spoke her mind. 
She has appologised for the improper choice of time, place and words.

>
>She was banished from at least 3 Kingdoms, including a level 1 from the East
>and a level 2 from the Middle.
>

This third kingdom has been mentioned in one post on the Rialto.  I've never
heard of a third, and "at least", there are more?  Do you have any hard info?
The bulk of the problem here was not the level 1 banishment.  Most everyone
would have accepted that as a Royal perogitive even if hasty/unwise.  What
ignited the firestorm was the level 2, based not on a safty/legal concern
but on a perception of manners and duties.  Many thought it was a dangerous
precidence if criticising Royality can get you virtually thrown out of the SCA. 
  To wit, excerpts from the banishment letter to Duchess Anne, published on
the Rialto at her request:
>>>
>>>The terms of a banishment from the realm include withholding of the
>>>recognition of the banished person^Rs honors and titles. For you this
>>>would mean that for the duration of Their Majesty^Rs reign, you are not
>>>looked upon as a Duchess or a Lady of the Rose  of the Middle Kingdom.
>>>You may not wear any regalia which is restricted to a royal peer  nor
>>>style yourself as a royal peer or a Lady of the Rose. While you
>>>attendance at events is not precluded, your active participation is
>>>barred. This means you are not allowed to merchant at SCA events, nor
>>>seat feast.  This restrictions apply only to events of the Middle
>>>Kingdom, as the banishment only applies to this realm.
>>>
>>>
>>>Done this third day  of September, by the will of Their Royal
>>>Majesties, Edmund and Kateryn
>>>
I'm not sure where Their Majestities get the limitation on merchanting and
feasts as neither of these is under an official SCA officer but if they so
describe it it will probably be so enforced.

>That's most of the story as I know it, in highly compressed form.  I guess you
>have seen the final act of the play?
>----End Text----
>
>That's what I know.
>
>	Tibor

It then went on (ad nauseum) on the Rialto, with many postings by those who
were and were not there, expressing a variety of opinions and generating
much bandwidth.
Meanwhile, behind the scenes, the principals involved were (and are)
settling it.
If we are lucky it will be a learning experience we won't have to repeat.

Yours in these Current Middle Ages;

Mikhail the Armorer
Tarkhan Khanate Bright Hawk
Great Household of the Dark Horde
we4@widomaker.com

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