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Re: MR: Arms? I thought they were appendages!

Poster: SMITHJH@ed.concord.wvnet.edu

I hope I haven't given the impression that I thought the Eastern custom
I learned was in any way superior to the Atlantian custom.  If I wanted
to start persuading my fellow Atlantians to adopt any Eastern practices,
it certainly would NOT be the "disarm everyone in court" custom.  (It
would be the "let ladies enter court unescorted" custom.)

> FACT:  I recently received my AoA.

Mazel tov!

> FACT:  I have heard a few times here and there that the only people 
> can legitimately display heraldic arms are those with AoA's.  Usually
> this meets with debate, and it is more generally accepted that the 
> requirement to display heraldic arms is to have them registered.

I don't accept that they have to be registered to display them, but
if you register them, it's more likely they'll appear on something
(like a scroll) that you're presented with as a surprise.  Almost
exactly like registering a china pattern.

Ok, In a desire to understand what is being said here^ are you saying 
it's OK to display arms that are not currently registered??

> FACT:  I have seen people display heraldic Arms without an AoA.  I 
> also seen people display heraldic Arms without having them registered.
> It's a moot point.

With respect, I must dispute this fact.  I believe that what you saw
those unlettered people display was heraldic _Devices_.  It is a
perfectly understandable observational error; only trained SCA heralds
are able to make the distinction.  (Mundane heralds don't)

Ok, here again, is it OK to display heraldry that has not passed Lord 
Laurel?? I've always heard a big NO to this...

> FACT:  I was told at my first event 3 years ago that if I was called 
> court, remove any weapons I had on me.  I was.

At your first event?  I am impressed.

>                                                And I did.  I have seen
> other people do the same at almost every event I have been to in any 
> of court.  I have seen more than a few people be asked to remove their
> arms in the presence of their Majesties.  I don't think anyone can 
> successfully that this is not a "custom and tradition" (quoting my AoA
> scroll) of Atlantia.

Well, one could argue that none of the people you saw so asked had an 

I think that _if_ we wanted to make _clear_ that an AoA _does_ confer 
right to wear a sword in court, the best way to do that would be for the
king to bid every new recipient of an AoA to arm himself (or herself),
either with the weapons he or she removed upon entering court, or with
ceremonial loaner weapons.  Just a suggestion.

I've seen Dukes and Counts remove ALL weaponry before entering the Royal 
presence. I did not think an AoA or above was a license to carry eapons 
into the King and Queen's presence.

> An Award of Arms is first and foremost a recognition of good 
> and devotion to the game we all enjoy to play.  It is not a privledge, 
> is a duty.  Every Lord and every Lady has the same responsibility to 
> populace at large and ESPECIALLY newcomers as do the King and Queen.  

Just some questions,
Ciaran MacGhabhain

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