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Re: April and May kingdom returns

Poster: "Thorpe, John" <thorpj@caepo1.ColumbiaSC.NCR.com>

Greetings from Eldred!

	I'm back, but only briefly.

Scripsit Herveus:

>Melys inquired:
>> > Finn Mac Iolair - name and device - name undocumentable
>> > Finn Mac Iolair - badge - no name (NOTE:  A name must be registered
>> > or in conjunction with any armory submissions.  If the name is
returned, so
>> > must be the armory.)
>> i'm confused...  (and everybody choruses "and this is different
HOW?")  i
>> thought that under certain circumstances a holding name - ie, finn of
>> wherever-he's-from - would be registered if a name didn't pass, and i
>> thought that the holding names were created specifically so that a
>> could still be considered if the name bounced.  did i dream this?  or
am i
>> conflating two entirely separate processes?  please enlighten me as
to the
>> error of my ways...
>You are correct that under certain circumstances a holding name will be
>formed. However, those circumstances did not occur. Only Laurel can
>a holding name. Since the name was returned in-kingdom, the device had
>be returned as well. Your confusion is not at all uncommon.

A device will be sent to Laurel if one of the following conditions are
and assuming that it would pass Kingdom-level scrutiny:

1)	The person already has a registered name
2)	The person's name has passed Kingdom-level and
	is in process at Laurel level
3)	The name and device pass Kingdom-level at the
	same time

Laurel will create a holding name if the device passes Laurel,
but the name doesn't.

Now to start some trouble.....8^)  Sorry, but I can't resist.

Why can't we send the passed device with the failed name and a
request to Laurel to create a holding name?  At the risk of
falling into the Heraldic Black Hole(tm) we could pend the
device until the name passes Kingdom rather than rejecting it
outright.  I think Midrealm does this--but there have been

The reason I suggest these two options is client satisfaction.
Why should perfectly good armory be rejected simply because
the name won't go through?  I do have another reason that is
somewhat obscure, but still a valid concern.  I can forsee
a raging debate over it, that will resolve nothing, so I
won't mention it further.

In service,
Gordian Knot Pursuivant
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