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Fw: Memorial Day

Poster: "MTR/AAHR" <wolffe@onslowonline.net>

-----Original Message-----
From: MTR/AAHR <wolffe@onslowonline.net>
To: Beiskaldi <Beiskaldi@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 18:15
Subject: Re: Memorial Day

>My Lord/Lady
>As a fellow SCAdian and a Pagan(Druid) I feel I must comment on what was
>said about covering the religious symbols of one faith's church. Many of
>present day symbols used by Christians are originally Pagan symbols.
>it was in respect for the Pagans who might be offended to see these symbols
>in such an environment,and in deference to the members of the church,  but
>would it not have been better to have asked if they were bothered by them
>the first place?  I'm sure you would find that many of us are not concerned
>so much with what is hanging on the walls that is not related to the Event
>as much as is thought. I for one do not much pay attention to these symbols
>anymore if they are not what I am there to see. I do agree that it was
>respectful to cover them, but not so much for we Pagans as it was in
>to the faith they represent.
>Just yet another view.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Beiskaldi <Beiskaldi@aol.com>
>To: heather@pop.net <heather@pop.net>; atlantia@atlantia.sca.org
>Date: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 18:00
>Subject: Re: Memorial Day
>>Poster: Beiskaldi <Beiskaldi@aol.com>
>>My lady,
>> Thank you for your perspective on this--opens up some thoughts and
>>perspectives that I hadnt considered.  Let me expound on my original post
>>bit:  I was keeping in mind a specific event where I was assistant to the
>>autocrat, who was pagan.  We had rented a church hall, which had numerous
>>banners hanging up around the hall.  The autocrat told me specifically
>>had to cover the banners that had christian symbols on them so as not to
>>offend the pagans that were in attendance.  Now, I have not known any
>>christians who have been offended by various other religions' symbols such
>>hammers, pentacles, etc., so this was rather an alien notion to me at the
>>and still is, tied into the personal belief that if the symbols were
>>offensive, then the hall should be also (of course that is merely my logic
>>work).  Something else I did not originally mention is that the other
>>which were found "acceptable" were not covered, nor were any other similar
>>decorations on the walls.
>>  I can honestly say that my experience of such intolerance, shown by this
>>person at this and other times, within the society has been very limited,
>>which is one of the main things that drew me to the sca in the first
>>In service,
>>In a message dated 98-05-26 10:14:08 EDT, heather@pop.net writes:
>>>  This is an interesting point, and I respect it, but I tend to look at
>>>  from a slightly different point of view.  I mean no disrespect to such
>>>  structures or the honoured dead, etc., or the people who created and/or
>>>  use/own such places.  It's just that when we rent a site, that's what
>>>  rent- a site.  When we used to rent the local Methodist hall for Games
>>>  Tourneys in Isenfir, we didn't rent the 'Methodist' aspect- we rented
>>>  the hall.  We wouldn't presume that the Methodists in question would
>>>  want their symbols up and showing during our event any more than we'd
>>>  put up our banners during their service.
>>>  To be honest, I've never been sure if there's a general Christian view
>>>  on this sort of thing, but I've grown up with one variety of Jewish
>>>  viewpoint, and I myself have a Pagan viewpoint.  I see it in these
>>>  terms:  We rent some space, a park, a building, whatever.  We don't
>>>  the 'sacredness' of the place or anything in it.  When we cover things
>>>  with banners, we indicate that whatever activities we have while we've
>>>  rented that space have nothing to do with the sacred aspects of that
>>>  place/those things/symbols, and that we are not having an adverse
>>>  on them.  When we put up banners and so forth, we create our own
>>>  for the 'The Dream' to exist.  When we take them down and pack up,
>>>  up, and leave, we respectfully acknowledge that the 'space' we created
>>>  no longer exists, and the site is once again restored to its original
>>>  purpose.  I've always been happy to volunteer for clean up because I
>>>  that as a way of showing my respect for the site and the people who
>>>  rented it to us, and their beliefs.  I respect the fact that they rent
>>>  out their hall, and I want to return it to them in (if possible) better
>>>  condition than I found it.
>>>  In one sense, that's how I see Pennsic.  We rent the area, set up our
>>>  tents and so forth, have our event, pack up, clean up, and return the
>>>  area to Nature and the Coopers.
>>>  Granted, something like a war memorial is slightly different, as it is
>>>  the sort of thing that might apply to Americans as a whole, so to
>>>  not just one religious view.  In that case, I feel that we create a
>>>  space wherein that is not part of history yet, but afterwards I try to
>>>  show my respect for those honoured in such places, just as I saw many
>>>  folks going to read and pay attention to such monuments at Emerald
>>>  Joust.  I certainly have my share of honoured dead in my family, and
>>>  would not wish to be disrespectful of others.
>>>  I hope this does not offend anyone, and if I'm missing something here,
>>>  please feel free to tell me.
>>>  Respectfully,
>>>  Miri
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