Re: [Fwd: why do we....?]

[Robert J Welenc <rjwelenc@erols.com>]

Poster: Robert J Welenc <rjwelenc@erols.com>

At 09:15 PM 7/22/98 -0400, Brenna of Lyonsbane wrote:
 Kingdom...
>
>A herald, as you will agree cannot read the minds of his overlords.


But he can and should know the basic rules.
>Elspeth
>had several returns because the herald told her a chaplet (or was it
an
>orlay?) of pansies proper would be fine, but the kingdom folks said
that
>recolored red they would look too much like roses (a protected
charge) and
>she couldn't have them.  The pansies were not protected and she had
no
>intention of changing the color, but....  

Oh, dear.  Something seems to have gotten scrambled and/or seriously
misunderstood there.  A chaplet or wreath of roses in *any* color is
reserved to princesses and queens, respectively.  This rule has been
in place since AS IV, mundanely 1970.  I can pull the precedents and
quote them in full, but it would take up a lot of bandwidth, and
folks might holler.

The outline of a pansy is almost identical in shape to that of a
heraldic rose.  It does not matter what color they are, or what
markings they have.  Pansy = rose.  Had the honorable lady submitted
one pansy, or three, or even many small pansies strewn in a regular
pattern on the shield, that would have been registerable. Roses in
any format other than a wreath or chaplet are allowed to everyone.
But if she persists in repeatedly submitting a reserved charge, then
Kingdom or Laurel has no choice but to return them.

In addition, a portion of my
>original submission name was from a different country than the rest,
but
>done on purpose to fit my family line (an Irish man who met an
Italian lass
>during the war and took her home--for SCA, I made it the crusades).


We don't register persona stories, only plausible period names.  In
period, mixed culture names were almost unkown, except for those
instances where two different cultures were in almost daily contact
-- Welsh/English, or Scandinavian/Anglo-Saxon, for instance.  

Let's say that the daughter of an Italian mother and an Irish father
had the Italian given name of Maria, and, as is usual for Irish, also
bore the name of her father, Tomais, as a patronymic.  
She might have been known by the Italian form of her name within the
family, but her Irish neighbors would probably  have called her by
the Irish form Maire, as that foreign name Maria wouldn't have sat
comfortably on their tongues.  In any legal records of the time she
would almost certainly have been recorded as Maire ingen Thomais, a
purely Irish name.  (ingen Thomais = daughter of Tomais, with the
father's name changed to fit the proper case.)  'Maria ingen Thomais'
would have been unlikely, if not unheard-of.  

And we won't even go into the case of the gentle who wanted a
Chinese/Greek/Aztec name...

Even now in this age of instant communication, foreign names don't
come easily to a lot of folks.  My daughter Tabitha was born in
Italy.  When we told the nurse-midwife her name for the birth
certificate, they repeated it back "Tah-bee-tah?" with the sort of
puzzled look that that means "What kind of a name is *that*?"  Our
Italian landlady transmogrified all of our weird American first names
into Italian. (She gave up completely on the Polish surname...)

If you can tell us the name you submitted, my lady, and when it was
returned, we can perhaps give you a clearer explanation of the
reasons for the return.

Alanna

=======================================================================
List Archives, FAQ, FTP:  http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
            Submissions:  atlantia@atlantia.sca.org
        Admin. requests:  majordomo@atlantia.sca.org