Re: IMPORTANT ATTENTION!!!

[Robert J Welenc <rjwelenc@erols.com>]

Poster: Robert J Welenc <rjwelenc@erols.com>

At 09:54 AM 8/11/98 -0400, Jen Kuiper wrote:

>>1.  You'll have to choose two out of the three. Even with a
>>multicultural first name like 'Tristan',  two surnames, one French
>>and one Irish, just isn't registerable.  Even if 'Roquelaure' turns
>>out to be a given name, Irish names didn't include middle names.
>
>
>My Lord,
>
That's "my lady".  See the signature rather than the heading.

>I may not be correct, but I'm not sure that statement is globally
true. I
>will admit to not knowing the research references for the name form
she
>used, but I copied the former Beacon Herald of Meridies' registered
name
>construction: Shiohnan Muirghall ni Domnhall. 

Mistress Sionyn Muirgen ni Dhomnall registered her name in November
of 1987, when the College's knowledge was not as extensive and name
standards were much looser.  She would probably not be able to
register it today, nor would I be able to register mine.

Laurel has returned or changed a number of Irish Gaelic names in the
past few years for using a double given or middle name.
---
LoAR Acceptances, June 98 -- 
Lóchán mac Alsandair. Name and device. Per chevron azure and gules, a
pall inverted Or between two wolves statant contourny and a Latin
cross argent.
	Submitted as Lóchán Alsandair, Gaelic does not use unmarked
patronymics or double given names. We have put the byname into the
proper patronymic form.

LoAR Returns, April 98 --
Uilleam Nial McAndrew. Name and device. Vert, fretty Or, on a chief
argent a rose, a rosebud and a rose azure.
	The name mixes Gaelic and English orthography in the same name,
thereby breaking our rules on name construction.  An entirely English
version would be William Nial McAndrew.  A Gaelic form would be
Uilleam Mac Aindriu. Note: the Gaelic form must lose the middle name,
since Gaelic does not use double given names. Since no changes were
allowed, we must return the name.
----
There are more, but these two are all I will post to the Merry Rose.
>
>I have, however, only seen it in early/mid-period Irish names (to
late 12th
>century), and not in any anglicized varieties.... such as Tristan's
would
>entail.

If you have such documentation, my lady, the Laurel office would be
very happy to see it.  Is it possible, however, that you are seeing a
 given name + descriptive byname + patronymic, and interpreting the
descriptive byname as a 'middle name'?  For instance, Uilleam Mac
Aindriu, above,  could add the descriptive term (in Gaelic) 'the Red'
 and be Uilleam Ruad* Mac Aindriu, but that would not justify the
inclusion of another given name.  He still could not be Uilleam Nial
Mac Aindriu,, even though a cursory reading of 'Uilleam Ruad Mac
Aindriu' would *appear* to justify it.

*Ruad --  This may or may not be the specific form.  Irish Gaelic is
highly inflected and very slippery for a non-expert.

>If anyone knows the specifics, I would be very interested.. :-) I
yield to
>the many masses of gentles with much greater heraldic knowledge than
I...
>
then perhaps you, and others who have an interest in Irish names,
might find 

http://www.itd.umich.edu/~ximenez/s.gabriel/docs/#ireland

of use to you.  This is the Academy of St Gabriel, which does
extensive research into period naming practices.  (Pedro, do you want
to expand on that?)


Lady Alanna Volchevo Lesa
Partan Herald, Barony of Lochmere
Laurel Minion
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