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Re: June Kingdom Returns (heraldry)
Poster: Robert J Welenc <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Frederich Von Teufel wrote:
> Could some of the Heralds (amateur or pro) explain to me how there
> is a conflict between the following charges?
And Tibor responded in part:
>Nitpick two: There are, at most (in essence) 3 layers to SCA Heraldry. The
>field (which may not exist) is layer one. The primary charge, and
>surrounding secondary charges are layer two. Charges laid upon the primary
>charge are layer three, and are called tertiary charges.
>For differences between tertiary charges, two differences are needed, and
>more than two don't make any additional difference In this case, there are
>three differences: shape, number and color. But they still add up to a
>"difference in tertiary charge." One CVD.
>You'd alluded to a "common sense" kind of ruling:
> And as a fighter, it passes my primary test, being able to tell the
> difference between the two shields from across the battlefield.
>I agree: the two arms are visually rather distinct. BUT: we still use two
>CVDs of difference, and we in general call a change of tertiaries only one
>difference: because otherwise the rules get complex.
>Consider if, instead of a simple roundel, a complex primary charge like a
>dragon rampant were used. The sheer complexity of the external edge of the
>primary charge would make the differences between one set of tertiaries and
>another set much less apparent.
In other words, a gold dragon charged with six blue spots isn't visually
that much different from a gold dragon charged with three blue stars.
> The rule as listed covers the vast majority
>of cases, and makes their adjudication a simple matter of looking and
>counting, as opposed to the complex matter of trying to guess what a large
>and faceless crowd of commenting heralds MIGHT be thinking.
Or take the case of a very common use of tertiaries: charges on a chief
(bar across the top of the shield).
There is only one CVD between:
Azure, a sun Or and on a chief argent three dragons passant vert.
(Blue background, gold sun, white chief, walking green dragons)
Azure, a sun Or and on a chief argent three horses passant sable.
(Same blue background, gold sun, white chief, but those little tiny green
dragons have been replaced by black horses.)
This is why you can get at most one CVD for a tertiary charge - almost all
the time they are too small to make much visual impact. They just don't
jump up and down and shout "YO! THIS ISN'T MARVIN THE MEEK, THIS IS HAROLD
And like most rules, heraldry has to go with what works most of the time.
Alanna Volchevo Lesa
Partan Pursuivant, Barony of Lochmere
Laurel Staff Minion
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