Re: Northern pricipality

["Steinfeld" <steinfeld@mail.tqci.net>]

I know that this will generate a number of responses, so I will be brief. 
In the original meeting Dafydd explained some symptoms of kingdoms growing
too large to fully represent and support their constituents.  One solution
was the forming of large sub-units (in Atlantia we have formed a regional
hierachy to do the administrative work of the kingdom more efficiently).  A
Principality will add the rest of what is already in place.  Throughout the
discussion, whether or not the TNNP became a kingdom or not, it first must
become a P.  At the time, I clearly heard in excess of 5 years for this to
occur.  The discussion of the effect it would have on the rest of Atlantia
wa of paramount concern to many including myself.  The answer then and now
is that there are as many peers, royal peers, baronies etc in the south as
were in Atlantia when Atlantia became a Kingdom.  Since I lack the
information to dispute this, it seems highly unlikly that the formation of
a TNP will have any material effect on the south for several years.  And,
should a TNK form, I for one will consider that our roots and friendships
also lay in Atlantia.

My understanding is that the TNNP has the potential of strengthening the
Kingdom not dividing it.  When and if a polling comes, I for one will vote
to have a new Principality, I am not considering at this time whether or
not there is to be a new Kingdom.  This discussion should rightfully be
several years from now.  We should do those things prudent to make a clear
identity, awards, orders, arms etc.. but lets not forget that for the
moment we are Atlantians.

In service to Crown and Coronet
Muirghen, Dun Carraig

----------
> From: Spears, Kate <KSpears@fdic.gov>
> To: 'magnusm@ncsu.edu'; 'principality_discussion@agent.infodata.com'
> Cc: 'brycedebyram@hotmail.com'; 'King@atlantia.sca.org';
'seonaid@juno.com'
> Subject: RE: Northern pricipality
> Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 8:08 AM
> 
> I am truly sorry that incorrect information was put forth as fact 
> before a group of people.  As I stated in an earlier post to the 
> principality list, I have never before heard the two year time line 
> discussed in Windmasters.  And since I take the meeting minutes, I pay 
> closer attention than most.
> 
> I don't know who thinks that the "south" cannot "stand on their own", 
> but I see two problems with that statement:
> 
> 1-A Principality is still part of it's Kingdom:  They still owe 
> allegiance to the Crowns and will still serve the Crowns -The "south" 
> will not be alone.  And contrary to what you've heard, we're not going 
> anywhere.
> 
> 2-Whoever said that has much less faith in the peers, fighters, and 
> artisans in the areas outside of the TNNP than I do.  It does them a 
> grave disservice, and is a slap in the face to their honor and skills. 
>  There are many dozens of peers and others to lead and teach in VA, 
> NC, and SC (and GA).  Talented people, from whom I have learned much, 
> and hope to continue to learn from.
> 
> As for the movement being centered on one group, that is simply not 
> the case.  People from  Bright Hills, Highland Foorde, Lochmere, Dun 
> Carriag, Stierbach, Ponte Alto, and yes, Storvik, are all working 
> together on this proposal.  And folk from these groups are from a 
> variety of backgrounds, including different households, peers and 
> non-peers, fighters, artisans, and bureaucrats (e.g. seneschals, 
> exchequers, etc).
> 
> I recognize that one message is not enough to  change what are clearly 
> deeply felt convictions, but I hope I have given you some much-needed 
> correct information.
> 
> Yours in Service
> 
> Aislynn
> Ponte Alto
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	magnusm@ncsu.edu [SMTP:magnusm@ncsu.edu]
> Sent:	Tuesday, February 17, 1998 10:38 PM
> To:	Spears, Kate
> Cc:	brycedebyram@hotmail.com; King@atlantia.sca.org; seonaid@juno.com
> Subject:	Re: Northern pricipality
> 
> Spears, Kate wrote:
> >
> > Poster: "Spears, Kate" <KSpears@fdic.gov>
> >
> > I am sorry you see us as wanting to leave the kingdom;
> 
> Magnus Malleus replies:
> 
> Just so you'll know - What Bryce said is exactly the way some of
> us in the South see this. He's not alone. I am not that eloquent
> so I'll be more direct and openly honest. I'll spare the
> Merryrose this. Further on I'm sure it will be discussed there.
> 
> At the Windmasters' Hill Baronial Meeting we were informed by a
> very senior old member of the kingdom that it is TNNP's intention
> to go Kingdom within two years. There were about 80 people there
> last month. (We've read Daffyd's dissertation about the East
> Kingdom's problems and spalling off new kingdoms.) We were also
> informed that the South is probably too deficient in peers to
> survive as a kingdom. You also have the greatest population
> concentration. So our votes may not count as much in the poll.
> You may very well outvote us in this matter.
> 
> Thank you all for thinking of us. Why should those of us down
> here want to start all over trying to build and save our
> kingdom because your interests are so self-involved? I remember
> when this kingdom was 'trying to survive' the first couple of
> years.
> 
> I very much held Daffyd in high regard until all this got started.
> Frankly, we admired him. Now I wonder at his motives.
> 
> I can't see anything good of this coming for the southern half
> and a great deal of harm and hurt feelings the farther south you
> go. I could certainly understand if SC split off to go with
> Meridies or Trimaris they are so thinly spread down there. To me,
> after 16 years, it still looks like another case of Storvik centered
> oneupsmanship. Your engineer hasn't considered the rest of
> us and it looks like your train is going to go where it wants to.
> The rest of the kingdom may be pulled apart like a flower's petals.
> 
> Those of us in NC will survive because we have the numbers, but
> principally in the middle two quarters of the state. If we had
> twice the numbers down here it might be feasible, not now at all.
> 
> Personally, I despise and resent the whole proposal.
> It seems like rape, or treachery, *not* love of Atlantia at all.
> When Daffyd says he *loves* Atlantia now he makes my skin crawl.
> 
> This is not meant to insult you personally, merely a statement
> of how some of us see it. So don't be individually hurt by
> my opinion, but it's how I honestly feel about the proposal.
> 
> Bryce is right. It is not fair to the rest of the kingdom, and
> it will pull us apart. Damn the principality. Support Atlantia.
> Don't tear her heart out - that's what you're doing, admittedly
> or not. There can be no other legitimate reason for the TNNP.
> 
> Magnus Malleus, OL, etc.,  Windmasters' Hill and the GDHorde
>  - normally not argumentative in the least, and WE have
> supported this kingdom for 16 years, making a library and
> until very recently an armory available (to be back on line)
> on a weekly basis all that time to all those who needed them.
> 
>