[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index][Author Index][Search Archives]

Re: Honor vs. Winning

Poster: Diane Stevens <nolarec@hwy5.net>

Julien de Montfort wrote:
> Poster: Julien de Montfort <julien@spiaggia.org>
> > satisfying (I'm not proud of that).  Kings would be doing better jobs
> >of
> > being king if they were more concerned with making the war enjoyable
> >and
> > less on winning and losing.  This is why, from what I've heard, I
> >understand
> > but disagree with, King Timothy's actions regarding the field battle.
> Not to quibble specifically with His Grace, but his post brings up a
> point I have seen reiterated in a few others on this topic, and I
> thought I'd pose a question in response.
> The way I interpreted HRM Timothy's explanation was of it not being a
> case of winning versus losing that made him decide to lead his army off
> the field, but rather it was the apparent dismissal of the ideals of
> honor and chivalry by HRH Dag.  Of course, Dag saw the argument
> differently ("truth is a three-edged sword"), but it begs the
> question.... would staying on the field in the face of the refusal of
> honor and chivalry have been better than declining the opportunity to
> participate?  I suppose it ultimately comes down to a question of how
> one views our Game, and how much seriousness one imparts to the virtues
> we are supposedly trying to emulate, but I was just curious.
> Julien
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Seigneur Julien de Montfort                  De sable, seme d'hermines
> "Solum Dice Nullus Sunt Suficio"             d'or, tres amphorae et un
> Seneschal, Web Minister, Herald@large            caid palissade argent
> Canton de Spiaggia Levantina                   http://www.spiaggia.org
> Bright Hills, Atlantia                             julien@spiaggia.org
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> =======================================================================
> List Archives, FAQ, FTP:  http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
>             Submissions:  atlantia@atlantia.sca.org
>         Admin. requests:  majordomo@atlantia.sca.org

	I posted part of this privately when I responded to Mistress Lyanna,
but there has continued to be so much talk about it that I felt everyone
was entitled to know it.  TRMs of the East letter did not tell the whole
story of what happened following the mountain pass battle.  Indeed, I
feel they left out what was the deciding factor in the Armies
withdrawl.  At the same meeting with HRM Kenna, HRH Dag and the War
Advisors to the Middle, after HRM Timothy made offers of how to settle
the contested bridge battle, either HRH Dag or one of the advisors
(sorry, I can't remember which) stated verbatim, "The rulings of the
Marshal's court do not apply to us.  We are here to win for Jafar and we
will win at all costs."  HRM Kenna and others from the Mid were there
and could have disputed this belief, but every one of them stood there
in silent agreement.  Upon hearing this, I was appalled and totally in
support of the decision that was made to withdraw from the field.  I
believe that it sets a terrible precedent if a kingdom can just decide
arbitrarily what rules at Pennsic will and will not apply to them, and
when they will apply.  When we play at Pennsic, all the kingdoms agree
to play by the same rules.  This is done for safety, consistency and
fairness.  If we had continued to fight after hearing this viewpoint,
wouldn't we, as a Kingdom, be guilty of condoning such conduct as

	Up to this point, the War had been extremely clean fought.  I heard few
complaints from either side, and most fighters agreed that this was some
of the hardest fighting they had ever done.  I am sorry that the
Atlantian troops did not get to fight the final battle.  I know that
they would have continued to fight with the exuberance, honor and
persistence which they had demonstrated throughout the entire War.  But
I have never been prouder than when I heard every single Atlantian
commander, every single one, stand up in support of the withdrawl of the

	I'm not exactly sure why this phrase bothers me the most, probably it's
because I am a lawyer in the modern world and such a disregard and
disrespect for the rules/laws which we have agreed to live by hits too
close to home.  Anyway, I felt you should know more of the events that

In Service to Atlantia,

Luned, Crown Princess
List Archives, FAQ, FTP:  http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
            Submissions:  atlantia@atlantia.sca.org
        Admin. requests:  majordomo@atlantia.sca.org