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re: Discussion: netiquette (was re: young people)

lady aislynn wrote:

> On the contrary, my lady, I feel it is the duty of people to point out 
> offensive behavior.  A community determines standards of acceptable behavior 
> by the words and actions of the community _in public_.  Everyone is entitled 
> to express their opinions.  But that includes the right of someone to tell 
> someone else they found their words offensive.          

milady, i agree with you completely - but i don't think that's the issue
here. there's a world of difference, imho, between "shaming someone into a
retraction" and constructively trying to collectively shape a community
standard of acceptable behavior.  ("milord, my interpretation of your
remarks is such that i find them extremely offensive.  this is how i
interpreted them, and this the reason i take offense at them - do we have
a misunderstanding? or, if we don't, will you please not repeat the
action/remarks, since it causes me distress?")

offending someone accidentally - unintentionally - isn't automatically
discourteous.  in this medium, it's almost inevitable.  it becomes
discourteous only if the behavior is repeated after the person has been
informed that it gives offense. 
> If his comments were made to her in private, only then should she have 
> limited her comments to a private response.  I myself have made the mistake 
> of responding publicly to what turned out to be a private e-mail.  The 
> misunderstanding was genuine, but I still apologized to the gentleman.  (He 
> gracefully forgave me for my error.) But since the lord's comments were 
> public, she was justified in her public response.

from my reading of her original post, it looked like the comment at which
she took offense WAS made to her in private: 

    Sir, I am offended....... You have replied to my offhand comment 
    privately in which you took me to task for encouraging trolling 
    the waters with our young daughters (or sons for that matter)   
    (YOUR comment:"While it is true that young ladies do seem to catch 
    the eyes of young gentlemen far sooner then we might wish (something
    I dread, since my daughter is currently only eight), I hardly think 
    it appropriate to encourage trolling the waters with them, until they 
    are at least no longer "jail" bait." )

he had a personal opinion; he expressed it in private email.  not only did
she not reply in the private medium, she published his private remarks to
the public forum.  why do that, if you're not trying to incite public
censure?  and why try to provoke and then invoke the (putative) authority
of the group, without trying to work it out amongst themselves?  no
individual here has the authority to act as arbiter in disputes involving
individual, personal sensibilities, especially when it's not our own
sensibilities that are involved.  and the diversity of opinion we've
already displayed around here makes me think it highly unlikely that we
will come up with a single judgement en masse, either. 

> "I'll say what I want (or do what I want) when and where I want regardless of 
> other's opinions/feelings" is not the mark of a courteous, honorable person, 
> and that mindset should not be tolerated by a community that prides itself on 
> chivalry and respect.  I'm not talking Political Correctness here, just 
> common courtesy.                                           

again, a point on which i fully agree with you - and again, that's not the
issue here.  i haven't seen any of the "offensive" posters express
unwillingness to accomodate the feelings of others.  i HAVE seen them
object to the manner in which those feelings are expressed, and quite
honestly were i one of them i would be objecting, too.  (heck, i'm not one
of them, and i'm objecting anyway.) 

i don't see anyone around here with that mindset.  i'd like to encourage
people not to be so quick to assume it of others, because imho their
assumptions reflect poorly only on themselves. 

						in service,


lisa@technomancer.com		lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'intrate!

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