Re: Principality

[Julien de Montfort <julien@spiaggia.org>]

Poster: Julien de Montfort <julien@spiaggia.org>

> Since this making the Northern Kingdom is going to tear Atlantia
>apart for

Point of Order: despite many opinions and statements to the contrary,
this is not a question of creating a new Kingdom.  The Principality
Movement is to determine just that -- the question of a Principality,
not a Kingdom; please do not consider the terms synonomous, as they are
not. There is the distinct possibility that it may eventually go
Kingdom, as did Atlantia herself when she split from the East after
fifteen or so years.  But that is not the topic of the current
discussion (but certainly something that should be kept in mind, I
suppose).

> about 4 or 5 years, I would hope that the Kingdom and BoD would
>require
> more response greater than 42%.  I would hope that they would ask for
>80%.
> Actually I would have like it better if you had polled all of
>Atlantia,
> since this separation, as I said before, going to tear the Kingdom
>apart
> for 4 or 5 years.

With all due respect, m'lord, the statement that the principality will
"tear the Kingdom apart" is an opinion, and not fact.  many people
think it will, many people think it won't.  It may, it may not -- only
time will tell (unless one is precogniscient ;->).

Incidently, if I remember correctly, I believe it was stated that the
BoD has never granted principality status on pollings with less than a
60% return rate, and many of them were much higher -- up into the high
80s.

> why vote.  Well I think if there were some scientific way to poll
>them you
> find that the overwhelming majority of people who have not returned
>there
> ballots are people who don't care or are against it and don't think
>their
> vote will matter.

There is a distinct possibility you are right.  And it is up to those
people who *do* want a Principality to try and convince those those 58%
who didn't bother responding to do so, and to do so in favor.  Just as
it is up to the people who *don't* want a principality to try and
convince that 58% to vote, and vote no.

> By your own admission you didn't poll the whole kingdom, you polled
>less
> than half.  Then out of them only 42% bothered to return the poll,
>then out
> of that only 80% of them voted to form the Northern Kingdom and yet
>you see
> this as a victory and are going forward with the heraldry, etc.

First off, please do not make statements on my behalf -- I did not
state that I saw it as a victory, nor am I speaking for the whole of
the Movement, nor of the Northern reaches of Atlantia -- I speak for
myself, and myself only, so please don't assume that I have any
official capacity in the principality Movement, as I do not.  You asked
a question, I responded with the facts as presented to me.

As to the fact that less than half the Kingdom was polled, yes, because
less than half the Kingdom would be in the proposed Principality.
There were no requirements to poll all of the kingdom any moreso than
the are requirements to poll all the kingdom upon the proposed
formation of a new barony, or any moreso than it is required to poll
the entire Known World upon the proposed creation of as new kingdom.
Only the people within the proposed boundaries are required to be
polled.  I'm not stating that it would not be a good thing to get the
rest of the Kingdom's opinions on the matter (and in fact I think the
movement would be a drastic failure if it *didn't* try and get the
opinions of those outside the P. area) -- simply that, by the laws of
the SCA, it is not *required* to poll them.

> If you are that determined to have your way, why bother with the poll.

Well, simply put, because it is required if anybody wants a
prinicpality.  No poll = no principality, even if 100% of the Kingdom
wanted it.

Julien
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seigneur Julien de Montfort                  De sable, seme d'hermines
"Solum Dice Nullus Sunt Suficio"             d'or, tres amphorae et un
Canton de Spiaggia Levantina                     caid palissade argent
julien@spiaggia.org                            http://www.spiaggia.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================================
List Archives, FAQ, FTP:  http://merryrose.atlantia.sca.org/
            Submissions:  atlantia@atlantia.sca.org
        Admin. requests:  majordomo@atlantia.sca.org